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Post by blueshift on Jan 15, 2018 20:43:50 GMT
Watched episode 11. Great lighting and properly doom laden. -Ralph Yeah, I really enjoyed this too. It seems like a completely different show in feel, I wonder if there was some kicking going on behind the scenes? |
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 15, 2018 21:56:21 GMT
It feels more like the production team are getting in their groove now and squaring the hole of a modern show that is still Star Trek-ish.
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Jan 16, 2018 8:11:43 GMT
Indeed. I think it helps that they are now in a position where a lot of things that were put into place early on are now paying off. I didn't think there were too many outright surprises in that episode, but it all went with the satisfyng snap of a well-engineered structure clicking together. Really good stuff, downright gripping in places and visually quite lovely. Liitle things like the light leaking in through tent fabric, creating a totally different mood to the shipboard sets were good craftsmanship, something that is a pleasure to see.
Karl
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Post by blueshift on Jan 16, 2018 9:48:44 GMT
A lot of people are using that same defense of the early eps, but really a lot of the key issues (boring/little characterisation, unlikable main character, overly violent, changes for the sake of changes, overly warlike) has nothing to do with setting up the second arc
It IS a lot better though. It's still grim but does feel a bit more fun and actually embracing of being Star Trek.
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Post by legios on Jan 16, 2018 19:35:03 GMT
A lot of people are using that same defense of the early eps, but really a lot of the key issues (boring/little characterisation, unlikable main character, overly violent, changes for the sake of changes, overly warlike) has nothing to do with setting up the second arc Oh that wasn't intended as a defense of the early episodes of Discovery - there are a number of those which are just plain bad. In some cases hilariously so. Remember, I very nearly bailed out on the show before they found their feet. Agreed - I think that it has taken them quite a long time to find their feet with how you make a Star Trek spin-off in this era, and in this format. No-one has really tried quite what they are doing here - it is far less episodic than anything the other spin-offs have tried, there are very few episodes which truly stand alone in Discovery even compared to something like Deep Space Nine.
I did get one unintended laugh from last nights episode:-
Burnham: "Why can't we see it?"
Karl: "I'm sorry Captain, they just launched the last of the effects budget at the planet below us!"
It isn't often that it has felt like they have bumped up against the limits of the money, but the Imperial Flagship arriving and parking safely off camera did kind of feel like a moment where they knew they couldn't really do a third establishing CG shot and played safe by not trying it. Not something that at all ruined my enjoyment of the show, but it did give me a giggle they probably didn't intend.
Karl |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 16, 2018 23:10:12 GMT
It'll probably get a nod it has a cloaking device or something. Another solid episode. As people have commented great lighting detail. Show has definitely found its feet, but I've been enjoying it from the start. Will be interested to see where Mirror Engineer bloke idea goes. And glad they haven't struggling out Secret Vok for too long. Now they can have some fun with that. I'm hoping in this universe the Emperor will be able to act. And I punched the air when Mirror Sarek had a Mirror Universe beard.  |
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Post by legios on Jan 17, 2018 19:52:44 GMT
It'll probably get a nod it has a cloaking device or something.
I wouldn't be surprised. Although it would be more amusing if it they'd taken a leaf from Jack Campbell - in one of his books a government is so paranoid it has built a secret fleet of spaceships to protect themselves from their own navy launching a coup, and have ensured that all the navy's ships have had programming upgrades which mean that their sensors simply refuse to report that the ships are there. Making them and their weapons fire effectively invisible to the folk inside the navy's ships.
There is a failure point in this otherwise brilliant plan - when the autonomous ships go a bit bonkers and start attacking a neutral third party the damage they do can be seen, and the third party are quite eloquent about "we are being attacked by ships from your side, can't you see what they are doing"....
That was actually the second thought that went through my mind about that sequence. (If I was Emperor of the Evil Universe, who avoided appearing in public as much as possible, I would darn well make sure that my navy's ships were setup so I could tell them "don't mind me, I'm not here" just in case anyone got any...foolish...ideas...)
Karl |
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 19, 2018 17:02:24 GMT
For me, the points where Discovery switched from 'this is really well made and watchable but a tad all over the place tonally' to 'I like this new version of Star Trek' was firstly when the saucer started to spin and secondly when some of the characters were running around the ship corridors with 'DISCO' on their t-shirts in large unsubtle writing. I thought 'yes, the makers are aware that Star Trek is a bit silly' and relaxed into 'the show will get there' mode.
So far, though, the worst elements of Discovery have been nowhere near as bad as the worst elements of early TNG. We forget how tonally uneven that was too when it started.
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 19, 2018 19:05:44 GMT
Shut up, Wesley.
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Post by legios on Jan 19, 2018 21:19:00 GMT
For me, the points where Discovery switched from 'this is really well made and watchable but a tad all over the place tonally' to 'I like this new version of Star Trek' was firstly when the saucer started to spin and secondly when some of the characters were running around the ship corridors with 'DISCO' on their t-shirts in large unsubtle writing. I thought 'yes, the makers are aware that Star Trek is a bit silly' and relaxed into 'the show will get there' mode. Yeah, I can see that. I think for me the point it finally clicked for me was when Stamets was revealed to be a colossal nerd about his mushroom drive. And indeed, when the show presented me with "we go through space by crawling along space's athlete's foot tendrils". At that point I was able to go - "ok, that is stupid. But you clearly see the funny side of it" and feel secure that the show wasn't going to be taking itself dreadfully seriously (the reason that episode 3 is so accidentally hilarious in places). Oh good god yes! Star Trek: The Next Generation managed to have one of its first few episodes be so bad that Gene Coon would likely have spiked it with extreme prejudice even back in the 1960s! [Yes, Code of Honour. You did hear your name mentioned - talking about you not to you.] Karl |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 19, 2018 22:35:00 GMT
A Woo-MAHN??
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 20, 2018 10:18:02 GMT
Imagine if Social Media had existed when TNG eps 1-3 came out.
Episode 1: space jellyfish, the Captain's a twat and some dude with 60's style cosmic powers keeps tooling about in historical costumes.
Episode 2: the child character gets high and the android has sex with lost of 'hilarious' sexual humour throughout.
Episode 3: Planet Africa.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 20, 2018 10:20:38 GMT
I have distinct memories of a fan ranting in a comic shop about the saucer separation in Farpoint!
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 20, 2018 13:23:11 GMT
I'm really enjoying Discovery. I like the ongoing narrative idea.
I am feeling an increasing need to start a long term marathon and watch all of Star Trek from scratch. Would take me many years though.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 22, 2018 21:17:39 GMT
Episode 12: {Spoiler}Good grief! Lorca is from the Mirror Universe!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!! -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 22, 2018 21:31:10 GMT
As an aside this was the shortest ever live-action Trek episode but the length felt spot on for this story.
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on Jan 22, 2018 21:31:46 GMT
Episode 12: {Spoiler}Good grief! Lorca is from the Mirror Universe!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!! -Ralph That was a theory floating about from day one given how grim everything was, but it was done well. Really enjoying this second half still. Baffling that it is the same show What classic Trek concept should they grim up next? |
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 22, 2018 22:08:20 GMT
Tribbles. Lets see them devastate a plant, consuming the inhabitants like a tidalwave sweeping the planet.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 22, 2018 22:32:12 GMT
Episode 12: {Spoiler}Good grief! Lorca is from the Mirror Universe!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!! -Ralph That was a theory floating about from day one given how grim everything was, but it was done well. Really enjoying this second half still. Baffling that it is the same show A lot of the first half now makes sense and it becomes obvious what the intent was from episode 1. Very clever. -Ralph |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 22, 2018 22:56:46 GMT
Well put together episode. Disappointed that the fan theory has come true as I much preferred the idea Lorca was a Starfleet captain with some shades of grey about him rather than just being 'bad' because he is from the mirror Universe.
Let's see where they run with it now. |
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Post by legios on Jan 23, 2018 8:27:15 GMT
Fantastic episode - they've managed to make this Mirror Universe both brutal and terrifying but also have a viable internal logic, and that is paying off for them now.
I'll admit that Lorca being from the Fascist Universe isn't my preferred take - there was plenty of room for him to fit into the mould of Captains like Tracey in The Omega Glory, and allow them to examine and debunk the "hard man making hard decisions" fallacy. But on the other hand, this gives us another chance to see Jason Issacs really open the throttle and go full-bore on the scenery-chewing bad man front, which I'm not sad about.
Did like the way they made some of the horrors almost...mundane... I mean, they eat Kelpians... Michael literally picked out her own dinner... So glad I wasn't eating at that part. I think I'd have thrown up if I was. A universe which both enslaves another sapient species, but also is prepared to use said slaves as food... That is a truly awful level of inhumanity, and says a lot about what these people really are. Even more so than the casual "oops. That is unfortunate, now I must kill my puppet council," moment really.,
Karl |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 23, 2018 9:38:16 GMT
I only twigged *after* the episode finished she'd picked out her own dinner although was obviously aware of what they were eating at the time.
Good grief.
I hope the Daisy Cutter Disk of Doom comes out again. She did not grin like Blade did after using his in a similar scene... |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 23, 2018 9:46:03 GMT
Two thoughts:
1) Does Mirror Lorca know Burnham has blown their cover to the Emperor? Might upset his plans a bit...
2) Just how long has Mirror Lorca been in our universe manipulating events and people to mirror his in preparation for whatever his plan is?
And a third actually...
3) Did he bring spore drive tech with him from the mirror universe?
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 23, 2018 10:22:36 GMT
{Spoiler}I suspect Mirror Lorca has been here ever since our Lorca "blew up" his previous ship and replaced him, hence how he passed all the fitness tests to go back to duty. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 23, 2018 10:31:23 GMT
Where is Lorca's Goatee of Evil?? |
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 23, 2018 10:33:25 GMT
{Spoiler}Fool! TOS's Spock had a goatee as he was the good guy! Something popular culture gets wrong time and time again, which drives me right up the wall. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 23, 2018 14:19:31 GMT
Double fool! Evil Sarak had one last week as well! If he wasn't the bad guy why does he rebel and not lie down for dinner quietly? Eh?? |
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 23, 2018 17:16:51 GMT
I enjoyed it, but the we have dodgy eyes was a bit out of nowhere. Would have made more sense if the Empress and Lorca had just been in the same incident that caused the condition. Wouldnt have changed the supposed shock reveal one bit, but would have made sense.
Dinner time was a bit horrific.
Im really curious to find out how long the show will remain in the mirrorverse and whether they will stumble upon Real Lorca and take him back. |
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Post by blueshift on Jan 23, 2018 17:27:27 GMT
I assume it is a half season arc. I mean yeah it was silly, but Burnham deciding to help the evil emperor who just murdered a planet and warn her that there was someone out to get her was sillier!
I am hoping that the web like sickness is revealed to be the Tholians
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Post by legios on Jan 23, 2018 20:00:02 GMT
Im really curious to find out how long the show will remain in the mirrorverse and whether they will stumble upon Real Lorca and take him back.
They've already got a Real Lorca, he's just not form the same neighbourhood as them... :-)
I'd be very surprised if "our" Lorca was still alive. I'm inclined to assume that the Buran was mostly vapourised at the Battle of The Binary Stars, and that the Federation Lorca was vapourised with it. What better way for Lorca(m) to cover his tracks than by making sure that there was only one Lorca around to be found?
Karl |
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