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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Apr 16, 2023 19:35:16 GMT
So Jean-Luc Picard played by Patrick Stewart is the top-billed character in all 208 episodes of 10 seasons (TNG + Picard) and 4 movies.
That's... quite a run. I'm trying to think of any precedent for that kind of a run for a lead character played by a single actor in live-action drama.
Martin
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Apr 16, 2023 19:47:47 GMT
So Jean-Luc Picard played by Patrick Stewart is the top-billed character in all 208 episodes of 10 seasons (TNG + Picard) and 4 movies. That's... quite a run. I'm trying to think of any precedent for that kind of a run for a lead character played by a single actor in live-action drama. Martin James Arness as Marshall Dillon in Gunsmoke. |
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 16, 2023 20:20:29 GMT
So Jean-Luc Picard played by Patrick Stewart is the top-billed character in all 208 episodes of 10 seasons (TNG + Picard) and 4 movies. That's... quite a run. I'm trying to think of any precedent for that kind of a run for a lead character played by a single actor in live-action drama. Martin Michael Dorn holds the record for number of appearances in Star Trek though. He'll never be beaten. -Ralph |
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Post by Bogatan on Apr 16, 2023 20:43:48 GMT
Mariska hargitay on Law and Order Special Victims Unit has been the lead since 1998 or 99.
And not quite meeting the criteria, though arguably even more impressive, David Boreanaz has been series regular every year (maybe a season gap between shows) since 1998 and show lead since Angel started in 1999 or 2000. Then on to Bones and Swat or whatever hes in now.
Mark Harmon on NCIS wouldnt be far behind either. And LL Cool J and the Boy Wonder on NCIS LA would be a bit further back but still ahead of Stewart.
Lawyer guy from the original Law and Order has also racked up 20 odd years, though not really as the lead.
Basically dont mess with the L&O or the Jagverse shows.
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Post by Bogatan on Apr 16, 2023 20:46:55 GMT
Hell JAG manged to run to 10 seasons so even the Jag lead did more episodes than Stewart. Chicago Fire is still going so Jessie from Neighbours must have got near 10 seasons before he left.
Seriously do not mess with Dick Wolfe.
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Post by Bogatan on Apr 16, 2023 20:51:34 GMT
Stewart likely wins for longevity though.
Shame they didnt sneak out the first episode of Picard season 1 in 2019, then he would have played the character in 5 different decades.
I guess he filmed in 2019 so he did play him in all 5 decades.
Doesnt quite beat Nimoy with 6 decades.
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Jim
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Post by Jim on Apr 16, 2023 21:20:30 GMT
That's one of my big problems with this series. It's trying really hard to go "Hey, remember how much you liked First Contact!" instead of doing its own thing. Much as I was unimpressed by the previous seasons, dropping the Picard theme, weak as it was, just feels like they've given up on the Picard series as being anything other than an extension of TNG. Which is, of course, exactly what they've done. I don't think it has been trying to do that at all. It has taken themes and motifs from previous music and visuals from across TNG and all the movies to create continuity and resonance, that's all. Only in the last episode has a connection been made obvious and even then it is as connected to Q Who and BoBW as First Contact.
I also suspect the 'forgotten' characters and seasons will pay off in the finale. They seem too obviously overlooked to me to actually have been.
Absolutely. If any season is beholden to First Contact it's season 2 which essentially had the exact same plot, except tedious and with stupid bits bolted on.
I don't think they dropped the Picard theme - with the most recent episode we learn Picard is now literally part of the DNA of Starfleet (for better or worse!) which I think is kind of a lovely metaphor, especially taken alongside the earlier episode where he was telling stories to the cadets in the bar.
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 16, 2023 21:22:57 GMT
Some of the Stargate folk did 10 seasons!
Tom Baker did 172 episodes on the trot and came back for cameos in Dimensions in Time and The Day of the Doctor*.
-Ralph
*And footage from the aborted Shada in The Five Doctors.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Apr 16, 2023 21:29:36 GMT
James Arness from Gunsmoke - 635 episodes in a 20 year stretch, 1955-1975 and then back for 4 tv movies in 1987, 1990, 1992, 1993 and 1994.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Apr 16, 2023 21:30:46 GMT
And if you look beyond live action - Dan Castellaneta as Homer Simpson will end up with the record eventually.
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Post by Bogatan on Apr 16, 2023 22:49:10 GMT
James Arness from Gunsmoke - 635 episodes in a 20 year stretch, 1955-1975 and then back for 4 tv movies in 1987, 1990, 1992, 1993 and 1994. So Hargitary is 101 episodes short of Arness, but has made crossover appearance in 5 other Wolf shows. Another 4 or 5 years would likely see her take the title for appearances. And Stewart needs to make an appearance as Picard in 3 or 4 years to take the title for longevity. Neither is entirely out of the question. |
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Post by Toph on Apr 17, 2023 4:17:23 GMT
Some of the Stargate folk did 10 seasons! Tom Baker did 172 episodes on the trot and came back for cameos in Dimensions in Time and The Day of the Doctor*. -Ralph *And footage from the aborted Shada in The Five Doctors. Richard Dean Anderson did 8 seasons (well, really seven and a half. He was barely in season 8), and guest spots in Atlantis and Universe. Michael Shanks 9 seasons, and guest spots in Atlantis and Universe. Chris Judge did ten full seasons, and a guest appearance in Atlantis. Amanda Tapping did 11 seasons (all 10 SG1, and season 4 of Atlantis), and did a guest appearance in Universe. |
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Post by Toph on Apr 17, 2023 4:23:19 GMT
And if you look beyond live action - Dan Castellaneta as Homer Simpson will end up with the record eventually. Dan Castellaneta has already got him beat both in time and number of episodes. Kelsey Grammer as Frasier Crane has him beat in terms of time (across Cheers and Frasier). I remember when it was a thing when Grammer tied his record. TV Guide wanted to do a photoshoot with the two actors together, but Arness was grumpy about it and wouldn't meet with him. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 17, 2023 15:09:17 GMT
I keep returning in my head to the fact that transporting apparently doesn't actually replicate the original person entirely even before the additional Borg code, but rather everyone who has used one has generalised plug and play elements to them.
Barclay was right!!
Speaking of which where is he in all this?? We need him now more than ever! |
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Post by Llama God on Apr 19, 2023 7:36:21 GMT
Don't forget - the finale of Picard is going to shown in some cinemas in the US later today, so gird yourselves and brace for the inevitable clout-chasing spoilers that'll hit way before Friday...
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 19, 2023 9:32:46 GMT
I will be reducing my internet usage until I watch the finale on Friday night. Don't want pricks spoiling it.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 19, 2023 9:35:23 GMT
How wise.
And since that means less rapping THANK YOU LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 19, 2023 9:38:16 GMT
Oh I'll still be here as I know there won't be spoilers on this board.
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Apr 19, 2023 20:30:19 GMT
Currently on Episode five, and as threatened I have a few more thoughts.
I am actually finding this as frustrating as the previous two seasons of Picard, but almost for the inverse reasons. The first season of Picard had some interesting themes - ageing, and the concern for what your legacy will be, what impact you will have left on the world and whether you have done more good than bad. But I felt it fumbled the actual execution of the them increasingly as it went on. Until it all disappeared in some sort of cloud of "alien AI space tentacle murder gods" and "the dangers of the hubris of taking on the mantle of The Creator"(and a general failure to understand the actual point of Shelley's book). The second season was less clear in its themes (I think it was about parenting, ancestry and the damage that can echo down the generations) and felt like it was drowning under a lack of budget, a lack of actual story and a cast it no longer knew what to do with.
So Seasons One and Two I thought were a case of themes that could have been interesting, but tripped up by terrible execution.
By contrast season three feels like the execution is much more polished - pacing is better, juggling the sets of characters and pacing out there stories to meet in the right places without feeling like anyone is being asked to mark time. In terms of the actual mechanics, season three is much better. But thematically it feels like it has much less ambition. There is a part of me that feels like the strongest theme emerging from it is "characters from Star Trek:The Next Generation have another adventure happen to them". It feels...less ambitious and more cautious.
If I was to liken it to anything, it would be to that old saw of the reunion TV movie - where a decade or so later you'd round up everyone from the cast of an old TV show and get them together to do "bits" that people had liked back in the day. It feels "safe" in a way that bits of the first season didn't. I miss the Picard that was willing to have the lead character weigh the accomplishments of his life and genuinely ponder whether or not he found himself wanting.
This reads harsher than I intend I think. For which I apologise - I am not expressing myself as well as I would like. Partly because I am still exploring my own thinking on this, and what I actually want from the television I watch. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with Season 3 of ST:Picard, I want to emphasise that. It is entirely competent, indeed perhaps even very good, at being what it wants to be. I'm just not sure how much what it wants to be is connecting with me.
And to end this on a good note - things I am really enjoying about this:-
1) Shaw - I genuinely like Shaw as a character. He is flawed, in a believable way, rough around the edges and has blind-spots that he really needs to examine (and which I think you can see him start to explore over these episodes), but I think it is a really good acting performance. I also kind of like his immunity to the ST:TNG cast's "protagonist aura". His "yes, yes. Heroes. That is all very nice, but it does not make you special or of any more value than the crew I am responsible" is something I think that could easily have made him just "that d*ck", but I think he lands the performance really well.
2) The actress playing Raffi. She is still absolutely bringing her A game, as she has done through all three seasons. I'm not sure that she hasn't had progressively had less interesting things to work with every season, but I have to hand it to her - she is absolutely still in there swinging.
3) What they've done with Beverly Crusher. Further discussion to follow when I see the remaining half season and see if they manage to hold the line on it, but there is a lot about the treatment of the character in these episodes that I really like.
4) Vadic - there is just something in the performance that I really like. There is a casualness to so much of it - a projection of "this is just tuesday", that I really like. In a kind of reversal of where the Borg Queen in S2 was showily confident and full of herself even when reduced to just an "imaginary friend" in someone's head, Vadic comes across as a more relaxedly confident. Probably helped by the lovely way she treats her command chair more like a comfy armchair a lot of the time.
5) A lot of the action choreagraphy in space. They've caught a nice mid-point between "everything flies like a mustang" and the sense that these are large objects with a fair amount of mass to haul about.
6) The dynamic between Shaw and Seven: lets make no bones about it, Shaw has not behaved well to her - for reasons that are not necessarily her fault, he's also done exactly what it is his duty to do in response to her actions and choices. And I kinda get the feeling from the performances that both of them understand the whole of that equation. It is an interesting dynamic, and one where I genuinely don't feel like I can predict what direction it is going to go and as a result is definitely one of the things keeping me watching.
Karl
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 19, 2023 20:34:55 GMT
Keep watching, Kaptain. Hold your course.
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Post by legios on Apr 19, 2023 20:44:15 GMT
Oh, I'm still onboard at the moment. This isn't an S2 situation, where I punched out once it was clear that there were fundamental structural issues. It's still entirely watchable television.
Karl
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Post by Llama God on Apr 20, 2023 7:31:01 GMT
Can't argue with any of those points there, Kaptain - very nicely put.
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Post by Llama God on Apr 20, 2023 7:33:46 GMT
Predictions for the finale!
Horribly outnumbered at Earth, Picard takes the Enterprise-D to the Nexus, where they team up with the Nexus echoes of Captains Kirk, Chekhov, Scott, Harriman and (for some reason) Garret and Archer to pilot the remaining museum ships to save the day!
The Borg are finally defeated when Picard joins with them again to become the face of the Borg once again, making their mission now to find the perfect cup of Earl Grey.
No-one remembers Laris exists.
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Post by Cullen on Apr 20, 2023 16:01:52 GMT
I somehow thought it was Friday and I was going to be able to watch the finale when I got home  Worse than that I realise I've now got another day of work to do. {Spoiler}I was a little bit disappointed the big reveal was the Borg (again). Thus far they seem to have forgotten about the events of the previous series so I'm wondering if Jurati Borg Queen will put in an appearance (possibly as Deus Ex Machina). |
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Post by Llama God on Apr 21, 2023 7:30:46 GMT
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Post by Toph on Apr 21, 2023 7:54:02 GMT
Just finished watching. Sick and hopped up on NyQuil so that i may stand a chance at work tomorrow, so I need time to process it and formulate my words. But you sum up my general feelings, so far. But... Rechristening the Titan to the E-G is so very disrespectful to the Titan, the E-F, and particularly the entire legacy of both ships in general.
I generally hate rechristening one ship to another. It bothered me when DS9 did it for the Defiant. But I let it go and accepted it because even then I understood it was backstage purposes, allowing them to continue using the model unaltered, and allowing them to reuse previous Defiant footage. I understood it was for real life budget purposes.
That is not this.
It would have made more sense for the theme of the season, and the legacy of the characters involved, if Captain Seven was commanding the Voyager-B. Fuck, it could have still been the same damn CG model of the Titan, allowing them to use the same sets.
Or just let it be the T-A.
I mean the Enterprise is the perennial Flagship of Starfleet. It is always intended to be the newest and bleeding edge ships Starfleet has.
The E-F is newer and more cutting edge than the Titan! |
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 21, 2023 17:37:03 GMT
Watched the ending. Loved it.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Apr 21, 2023 19:37:18 GMT
Watched the ending. Loved it. So did I. It felt like normal TNG two-parter pacing rather than we've-dragged-this-out-over-ten-weeks pacing. Martin |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Apr 21, 2023 21:30:47 GMT
Enjoyed the ending, lots of great wee moments.
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Jim
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Post by Jim on Apr 21, 2023 21:43:41 GMT
Just watched it. Overall enjoyed it, a few random thoughts...
Glad they and the ship all survived. I thought they might as it would have been kind of a waste for Picard to gain a son and not live to make the most of that, but writers these days can be wasteful like that in service of Big Emotional Moments. Speaking of wastefulness...
Shaw is still dead. Boo. It's funny how much that cast a pall over this episode for me. He was a much more interesting character than Raffi who bafflingly continues to be at the centre of this show.
Laughed out loud at Q's reappearance. Matalas has been shameless in undoing, ignoring, and even gently mocking seasons 1 & 2 and I love it.
I didn't care for full on horror movie Borg Queen, but then I've never cared for the idea of the Borg Queen at all.
Given how much epilogue there was here I was surprised there weren't a few more cameos - at least Wes and Guinan.
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Worse than that I realise I've now got another day of work to do.