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Post by The Doctor on Apr 21, 2023 22:13:25 GMT
Enjoyed the ending, lots of great wee moments. I lost my shit so many times I was swimming in diarrhoea by the end. -Ralph |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 21, 2023 22:15:30 GMT
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Post by legios on Apr 21, 2023 22:37:11 GMT
I'm a little behind everyone else, just finished watching eps 6 to 8.
Jack is going to turn out to have some sort of magic Borg Wetware or something I'm guessing. All this stuff about "connect us", the fish-eye lenses on certain shots, the stuff about many voices. Seems to point in that direction to me. What it all adds up to though is still incredibly vague, and they seem determined to hang onto anything that might establish what the full stakes actually are up until the last possible moment.
Enjoying the Sydney/Jack dynamic - there is a lovely echo of his Dad in the character there, and it is nice that Sydney is getting to be more of an active participant in events.
That's all we are getting in terms of acknowledgement of Seven/Raffi? Very disappointing, I liked their relationship and it deserved better than to be barely acknowledged with what kind of felt like a "will this do?" from the script.
Oh Vadic, I shall miss thee - it won't be the same without that wonderful villain performance from Amanda Plummer. She was brilliant. Both credibly threatening and wonderfully entertaining to watch (the "when I've killed you I am taking your chair with me, because it is comfy" did make me snort.) Also - a Changeling that has gone "eh, why not" and taken up smoking... I kind of like that - honestly that makes her more different than previous Changelings than any atrocities could. And if she had to go...then those were absolutely the right last words for her. That was a funny line in just the right way.
I snorted with laughter when I realised that they were going to play along with the running "what nonsensical way can we have Brent appear this season?" thing. I've got to admit that having him play three of his previous characters in one episode, and then a fourth character derived from them an episode later is a probably the most amusing way that question has been answered in three seasons. I love that they tried to graft some sort of sense onto the whole Soong farago fof nonsense with some vague handwaving about "purpose of life mumble, mumble", that is kind of endearing.
Very surprised that they got Michelle Forbes back - given how rarely she has any interest in television work I was very surprised to see her. But a pleasant surprise as she always puts in a fantastic shift in anything she's in. (Putting her on a spaceship again just reminds me of how cruel a world it is that we'll never get an adaptation of "Downbelow Station" where she could play Signy Mallory - a character she would be such a fantastic fit for. :-( ).
I'll admit that my interest is ebbing slighty as the new characters/series regulars to ST:TNG characters screentime ratio starts to shift more in the direction of the latter. This is still competently executed popcorn television, and there are only two episodes left, so I'm likely to finish this season (and not in the "out of bloody-mindedness" way that I did Season 1).
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Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 21, 2023 22:40:05 GMT
I'm guessing the lateness of the hour is what made Karl go HTML < and > and not BB code [ and ] ?
fixed
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 21, 2023 22:44:52 GMT
I'm guessing the lateness of the hour is what made Karl go HTML < and > and not BB code [ and ] ? fixed Those are words I do not understand. -Ralph |
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Post by legios on Apr 21, 2023 22:45:48 GMT
I'm guessing the lateness of the hour is what made Karl go HTML < and > and not BB code [ and ] ? fixed Actually it is my age and my work background. I rarely work in BB code, but several of our systems output html code that I need to be able to comb through to work out where things have gone awry, so I often find myself automatically using the syntax that I know best (and still have really old habits like insisting on closing all my tags, even though newer html iterations don't always require me to). In short, I cast all my spells in the Old Tongue, even when it doesn't actually work for that type of magic. :-) Also, Thank you! Karl |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 22, 2023 7:21:01 GMT
I think Karl should wait a full week between episodes 9 and 10 for the full effects of 9 to sink in...
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 22, 2023 7:45:29 GMT
Oh my yes.
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Apr 22, 2023 8:26:33 GMT
I have many thoughts. And many emotions. Still processing. If I have complaints I'm pretty sure they all come down to budgetary neccessity. {Spoiler}Except Shaw.
And O'Brien. |
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Post by Llama God on Apr 22, 2023 8:27:52 GMT
The "no" was indeed the for Enterprise-G moment. Not just because I much prefer the look of the F to that ship, but because that also disrespects the Titan's entire legacy. The Titan-A was, after all, also instrumental in saving the Earth. That should also be celebrated! But Matalas wanted to have his own E////////nterprise moment, so there we are...
The rest of it was... fine. About on a par with the concluding episodes of any of the TNG two-parters, really (which were never as good as the part ones). It wasn't that imaginative, and although it was very Trek for Picard to save the day with the Power of Family, I was hoping for Jack to actually take a stronger role - taking the Collective down from the inside sort of thing. And much as I absolutely love the D, flying it through the Borg cube like it was the Millenium Falcon flying through the Death Star was also a bit silly - she's a capital ship over half a kilometer long, not a fighter! Although we did also see Beverley being kick-ass at tactical, so that was a plus.
I was very glad that they opted not to kill any of the main cast off, though. Although, yes, Shaw's death still cast a big shadow over everything. But giving the crew a final happy ending felt kind of right, so I'll not complain about that too much.
Overall, I'd say this season stuck the landing. I wouldn't say it was the most successful or exciting of landings, but they didn't fuck it up either, so... it was fine.
I won't, however, be joining the legions calling for Matalas to helm a Star Trek: Legacy series, because I think that this has shown that whilst he knows how to trade in nostalgia, actually coming up with original and interesting stories isn't his strength. And that's what I'd want to see in any series that followed the crew of the... *puttup* ... Enterprise-G.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 22, 2023 8:29:27 GMT
I'm sure O'Brien was on the starbase and that's why it held out so long.
He probably beamed everyone off just as it exploded too, saving countless lives. Unlike the D crew whose dithering gave the Borg time to blow it up. |
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Post by Llama God on Apr 22, 2023 8:29:58 GMT
I have many thoughts. And many emotions. Still processing. If I have complaints I'm pretty sure they all come down to budgetary neccessity. {Spoiler}Except Shaw.
And O'Brien.
Agreed.
Also, they needed a post-credits scene of Laris sitting around, asking: "Where the feck is he?!"
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Apr 22, 2023 8:30:29 GMT
I have many thoughts. And many emotions. Still processing. If I have complaints I'm pretty sure they all come down to budgetary neccessity. {Spoiler}Except Shaw.
And O'Brien. {Spoiler}Clearly the O'Brien episode in Picard S3 was one where something so absolutely horrific was being done to him that it couldn't be shown on tv, or even mentioned. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 22, 2023 8:32:07 GMT
Indeed. Not to worry though. He'll soon be down the pub playing darts and avoiding going home to talk to his wife about it all. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Apr 22, 2023 12:49:37 GMT
The Enterprise-D-other-Galaxy-class-whatever-hybrid clearly has capabilities now that it didn't have 30 years earlier. The question is how much is down to technological advances implemented by Geordi, how much is down to Data's piloting, and how much it helped not having a full crew complement. Maybe most of the ship didn't even have air in it, making it much lighter. Martin |
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Post by legios on Apr 22, 2023 15:33:08 GMT
Episode 9 has been reached. I am reminded this week, both by this and by the trailer for Ahsoka, that I have a relatively unexpressed nostalgia gene. As such, I was probably never the core target audience for his season in any event. (Ironically, the first season of Picard was probably more targeted in my kind of direction. Shame about the actual shot... :-) )
Well! I thought inertia-less drive was a Lensman universe thing. But apparently ST:Picard has it too, because that last scene killed the momentum of the episode dead... From reasonable narrative clip to all-stop in a matter of seconds. (Yes, it is an impressive feat of set construction, they've done a marvelous job of replicating the old set. But...make story go now please?)
Looks like they have benched all of the regular cast except Picard then, yeah. Kind of expected that. They killed my favourite supporting character from this season though. Kind of suspected that might happen - but at least they didn't labour it too much. Aiming to be last man off when the ship is boarded, and get everyone he could off his ship alive and just taking a bullet in the process...yeah, that is in the finest tradition of Starfleet Captains. My ST:Online captain would definitely raise a glass of vodka in his honor and observe "He was a dipshit, here's to him!"
Shelby always was a pain in the ass. Utterly unsurprised that she made Admiral. Hope that wasn't them killing her off-screen though, it feels hardly worthwhile getting Elizabeth Dennehy back just for that little cameo.
I'm genuinely surprised that it took them that long to put it all together about the Transporters - there was a pretty huge bit of signposting several episodes previously when Ro didn't trust the transporters, and in-universe the fact that Transporters can be used to change the DNA of passengers was something that the Enterprise crew themselves used to save the life of their chief medical officer all the way back in S2. Clearly all getting slow in their old age.
For a while there I thought we might actually be going back to the scary, amoral, mass-hegemonising swarm Borg, but no - we're sticking with the less interesting Eeeevilll Borg Queen and her army of puppets/Zombies/Thralls. Ah well. Figured it would be that, but allow me my few minutes of hope there.
There was a scene in the turbolift which I know is supposed to be tense but all I could see were the flashing red-letters saying "Budgetary Bounds Exceeded", and "Not Enough". :-)
As a Star Trek: Online player I know that I should be terribly excited about seeing the Enterprise-F as a higher-resolution. TV quality model... But it's an Odyssey class ship, and I'm not hugely a fan of the Odyssey design. (Which is the reason I don't have one for any of my Starfleet side Captains in game. Ironic considering how long it was the Iconic Starfleet ship in ST:O.
I think for me it was more fun seeing the Stargazer last season, firstly it is a much more attractive design to me and secondly a ship of the same class carried my main captain through most of the story campaigns in the game.
Do I watch the last episode this afternoon, or do I leave it till tomorrow... I've still got last weeks RWBY I've not seen yet, and my new book is sitting on the coffee table calling to me... Decisions, decisions... Karl |
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Post by Toph on Apr 22, 2023 17:02:35 GMT
I gotta admit, I'm not keen on any of STO's designs. I didn't know about any of them until Eaglemoss started making models of them. And I've not been terrible impressed.
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Post by legios on Apr 22, 2023 17:04:11 GMT
Episode 10 has been watched. That was alright. Broke the Picard curse of catastrophic shedding of parts on the way to the ending, and managed to do better at finding the regular cast something to do instead of completely beaching them as I thought they were going to do.
I still think it was narratively less ambitious than the first season and much, safer. But it was competent and entertaining space nonsense. Further thoughts may follow once the series, and my dinner, have been properly...digested.
Karl
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Post by legios on Apr 22, 2023 17:10:38 GMT
I gotta admit, I'm not keen on any of STO's designs. I didn't know about any of them until Eaglemoss started making models of them. And I've not been terrible impressed. I don't think they did models of any of my favourite designs from ST:O. They did the Engineering Command Battlecruiser, but not the Tactical version which I much prefer, I don't think. I like the Probert Enterprise design that was used for the Narendra and Eaglemoss may have done that. But they never did the really good Romulan designs or any of the Klingon designs I really like. ST:O is certainly a bit of a mixed bag, but for me, there is some stuff in there I really liked and some I really didn't. Like most ST related media really. Karl |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 22, 2023 17:59:55 GMT
The Kaptain has his own mind. Neutralise unassimilated unit. Firefirefire... |
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Post by Toph on Apr 22, 2023 18:34:06 GMT
I gotta admit, I'm not keen on any of STO's designs. I didn't know about any of them until Eaglemoss started making models of them. And I've not been terrible impressed. I don't think they did models of any of my favourite designs from ST:O. They did the Engineering Command Battlecruiser, but not the Tactical version which I much prefer, I don't think. I like the Probert Enterprise design that was used for the Narendra and Eaglemoss may have done that. But they never did the really good Romulan designs or any of the Klingon designs I really like. ST:O is certainly a bit of a mixed bag, but for me, there is some stuff in there I really liked and some I really didn't. Like most ST related media really. Karl Sorta marking this because I like this discussion and want to continue, but am about to clock in and don't have time, and want to remember it later. So to keep from further derailing this thread, will respond tonight in the main trek thread. |
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Post by Bogatan on Apr 23, 2023 6:46:06 GMT
Okay lets try some thoughts on the finale. Spoiler
Spoiler
Lets start with the bit many people dont seem to like. The Enterprise G.
I... don't care. Yes it was overkill. But when the Yorktown or whatever ship it previously was, was renamed Enterprise A it was no longer the pinnacle of the fleet. The Constitution was by then 50 odd years old and even the refit was a decade old.
The Titan in its new refit form was newer than Enterprise F or at least was deemed of more use by 2402. And really nothing seen in season 3 suggests its in anyway a mid tier ship of the time. Its smaller and has a retro look but isnt an old ship.
Personally I wouldnt have done it. Aside from anything, if there is a spin off show thats going to mean two ships called Enterprise on two diffrent shows at the same time. That alone makes it a weird choice. But in story the main objection I'd have is that it doesnt seem like something Shaw would have liked, making it a bit disrespectful.
Also its a bit odd that they were decommisioning the F without a replacement lined, with the exception of the A the Enterprise has always been one of the newest ships at the time of commision. So I would have thought an Enterprise G would have been in the works. Maybe its a few years away so this is a temporary renaming till the H is ready. I read somewhere recently that the US navy has done similar things in the past.
I don't know, not something I would have done, but honestly not something I have a major issue with.
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Post by Bogatan on Apr 23, 2023 7:20:28 GMT
And the rest {Spoiler}The negative (ish)
Shaw - Nothing against Seven but a Shaw led series with her as his No 1 and Raffi as Security chief just seems more interesting than the likely set up now. If his death had meant more maybe it would be different, it was noble and all that, it worked, but it wasn't his redemption arc, that was about accepting seven and dealing with his trauma. and apparently he'd already done the first of those before we even met him.
O'Brien - In all seriousness.
Rikers log
"A world-saving effort developed by our new head of Starfleet Medical Branch Admiral Crusher... *camera pans from Crusher towards the transporter console* ... with the assistance of an old friend. * camera pans up to O'Brien doing what he does best*
Its not a lot to ask for. Is it?
really, even though Ive been joking about them, they are really my only gripes about the episode and pretty much the whole season. Everything else is stuff I would have liked to see but get why they didn't happen.
Matlis has said the original script included a few scenes that didn't make due to a lack of money. The first would have shown Tuvoks rescue and alongside him an alive Ro Laren, who the Changling had beamed off the shuttle before it exploded. This actually makes a fair amount of sense as the shuttle crash allowed them to frame the Titan, but discovering what Ro knows makes it worth beaming her of the shuttle before it explodes.
though it also sounds like the sort of non canon retcon a writer makes after they realise they made an unpopular call, such as apparently killing off Elnor along with the Excelsior.
And the second unfilmed scene would have brought back Soji to meet her "father"
Looking at the series I can completely believe they well and truely blew their budget, but its still a shame these didnt make it as they both fit the seasons theme of relationships between parents and their children. And bringing Soji back would have brought some closure to the character, who very much just got dumped at the start of season 2.
Anton Chekov would have been on screen as well if money and time had allowed. Would have been nice but the voice over was also kind of lovely.
Speaking of budget one thing that struck me at somepoint was that they had only rebuilt the bridge of the D. If they had had the conference room it would have been used early on. And if they had the real 10 Forward that would have made a more appropriate setting for the final scene (though as written it wouldnt have made a whole lot of sense)
And if they had had the budget Im sure they would have had Guinan in the final scene telling them she was going to bed and to lock up behind them.
Laris - FFS! Im tempted just to think they've just decided not to break with tradition. Structurally I get why involving her beyond episode one doesnt really work with what the aim of this season was (plus paying for them and find thing them screen time) but in story, if you have a super loyal former Tal Shiar agent who will die to protect you, you take them along on the really dangerous mission.
Basically aside from *redacted* my only real issues are the things that didn't make it in to the episode. So thats pretty good going. |
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Post by Toph on Apr 23, 2023 7:49:34 GMT
And the rest {Spoiler}The negative (ish)
Shaw - Nothing against Seven but a Shaw led series with her as his No 1 and Raffi as Security chief just seems more interesting than the likely set up now. If his death had meant more maybe it would be different, it was noble and all that, it worked, but it wasn't his redemption arc, that was about accepting seven and dealing with his trauma. and apparently he'd already done the first of those before we even met him.
O'Brien - In all seriousness.
Rikers log
"A world-saving effort developed by our new head of Starfleet Medical Branch Admiral Crusher... *camera pans from Crusher towards the transporter console* ... with the assistance of an old friend. * camera pans up to O'Brien doing what he does best*
Its not a lot to ask for. Is it?
really, even though Ive been joking about them, they are really my only gripes about the episode and pretty much the whole season. Everything else is stuff I would have liked to see but get why they didn't happen.
Matlis has said the original script included a few scenes that didn't make due to a lack of money. The first would have shown Tuvoks rescue and alongside him an alive Ro Laren, who the Changling had beamed off the shuttle before it exploded. This actually makes a fair amount of sense as the shuttle crash allowed them to frame the Titan, but discovering what Ro knows makes it worth beaming her of the shuttle before it explodes.
though it also sounds like the sort of non canon retcon a writer makes after they realise they made an unpopular call, such as apparently killing off Elnor along with the Excelsior.
And the second unfilmed scene would have brought back Soji to meet her "father"
Looking at the series I can completely believe they well and truely blew their budget, but its still a shame these didnt make it as they both fit the seasons theme of relationships between parents and their children. And bringing Soji back would have brought some closure to the character, who very much just got dumped at the start of season 2.
Anton Chekov would have been on screen as well if money and time had allowed. Would have been nice but the voice over was also kind of lovely.
Speaking of budget one thing that struck me at somepoint was that they had only rebuilt the bridge of the D. If they had had the conference room it would have been used early on. And if they had the real 10 Forward that would have made a more appropriate setting for the final scene (though as written it wouldnt have made a whole lot of sense)
And if they had had the budget Im sure they would have had Guinan in the final scene telling them she was going to bed and to lock up behind them.
Laris - FFS! Im tempted just to think they've just decided not to break with tradition. Structurally I get why involving her beyond episode one doesnt really work with what the aim of this season was (plus paying for them and find thing them screen time) but in story, if you have a super loyal former Tal Shiar agent who will die to protect you, you take them along on the really dangerous mission.
Basically aside from *redacted* my only real issues are the things that didn't make it in to the episode. So thats pretty good going. Maybe O'Brien was always intended to be the one who Admiral Crusher had helping her fix the transporters, but it just didn't work out with Colm, for whatever reasons (be they cost, scheduling, or he didn't want to or physically couldn't).
Final episode aside, Elnor's absence is the thing that irks me most about the entire series. Like... there's not even a mention of him.
Having him come to save Raffi with Worf would have made perfect sense to bring him back into the show.
But like, not even a mention? When Raffi is finally getting to talk to her son again? Not even "Oh, and I have another son now. He's grown, but he didn't have anyone, and neither did I. I can't wait for you two to meet."
Because he really is her kid. They can't make that her driving motivation for an entire season to never mention it again. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Apr 23, 2023 13:15:25 GMT
The Enterprise G. I... don't care. Neither do I. I just didn't like having an Enterprise-F shaped like Voyager. I'm assuming the F didn't survive the final battle, unless anyone can point out that it did. Martin |
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Post by Bogatan on Apr 23, 2023 13:57:00 GMT
It Spoiler
was due to be decommissioned anyway, so wether it survived or not didn't make much difference.
Unless you where on it.
Why it was being decommissioned after less than 20 years is a better question. |
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Post by legios on Apr 23, 2023 15:55:50 GMT
It {Spoiler}was due to be decommissioned anyway, so wether it survived or not didn't make much difference.
Unless you where on it.
Why it was being decommissioned after less than 20 years is a better question.
If it's first Captain from Star Trek:Online made it through to the TV show along with the ship, then the answer is Captain Vakell Shon. Man, is he hard on Starships - of course, being very much in the thick of it like player-characters it is no wonder that his ship is often taking a brutal beating. Being the Federation's shield means you take quite a battering... :-) ).
More seriously, it could be as simple as already being in a major accident that had put the spaceframe in a state that it was spaceworthy, but no longer suitable for combat or long-range exploration and it wasn't judged worthwhile keeping in service in that state, and unlike some navies Starfleet doesn't have a tradition of keeping a permanently drydocked ship of historic significance in nominal service
For that matter, there is a year between some of the various endings of that episode. It could easily have continued in regular service and been lost or wrecked beyond viable repair during that period. Leading to the Titan-A being recommissioned because Starfleet is turning its eyes outward again after decades, and wants the symbolism of the "soul of the fleet" being a deep-range explorer venturing out into the unknown, instead of a line battlecruiser holding the frontier...
That or the Titan blew it to scrap during one of those fast passes and we just didn't see it because the camera travelled with Titan...
Karl |
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Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 6,121
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Post by Stomski on Aug 1, 2023 14:50:36 GMT
Just finished. Why is every internal shot on a starship so dark? It real ruins the Star Trek vibe for me. Even the Enterprise bridge had a gloomy feel and that felt like they were trying to brighten things up a bit. |
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 1, 2023 19:14:09 GMT
After the Borg attack, the Dominion War and the destruction of the Utopia Planetia Shipyards, Starfleet's budgets were tight. They just can't stretch to enough lightbulbs for their starships.
-Ralph
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Post by Benn on Aug 1, 2023 20:51:28 GMT
"You can't have top of the line starships AND be expected to see in the corridors, now can you?"
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