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Post by Dave on Dec 18, 2015 9:27:08 GMT
The lack of 20th Centuary Fox fanfare felt weird, more so than on The Clone Wars film. I think there it helped that they mixed things up with the radio chatter over the "A long time ago...". Here it was just odd. I was expecting a Disney logo before the Lucasfilm one which didn't happen and I was expecting something to play over the logo - there was a new fanfare for the recent digital releases (apart from the first film). Strangely there were no film trailers, apart from a "Filmed in the UK" Force Awakens ones, where it was mentioned that the six previous episodes had been filmed here. True, but a bit misleading when AOTC and ROTS only had pickups here. Like others I still feel like I don't want to say much about the film itself yet. I mostly liked it, but had a few issues. I am surprised by how well received its been though. More random thoughts... Spoiler
What's the deal with C3P0's red arm?
I've not read it, but there's a comic about that. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 18, 2015 11:54:00 GMT
I'm scared to put anything in case the spoiler tags don't work. {Spoiler}I'm disproportionately sad about the death of You-Know-Who. It was a 'good' death, and he obviously didn't want to do anymore. It was very dramatic, but you don't kill-off You-Know-Who and and and, I dunno, not expect upset people. And when a different You-Know-Who was flying the You-Know-What at the end with out the first You-Know-Who, well it was the saddest thing in the world!!!!! {Spoiler}Generally though I liked it, VERY MUCH. But, it was very similar to ep4! Erm, I know they had to go for a certain amount of nostalgia-factor, but, it was almost the same bloody film!!! I loved the new characters, though. Really loved them. They had a great vibe, great chemistry, but, as Stom' was saying above, Poe was very conspicuous in his absence for the bulk of the film, and the new characters all suffered because of this. Rey and Poe didn't even meet! My biggest gripe is that there wasn't enough information about what has gotten us to this point. There were bits and pieces, and obviously you can't make it info heavy, but why did there need to be a 'Resistance'? Why wasn't the New Republic fighting the First Order? How did it all go so bad for Luke's new Jedi? I suspect more on that next round, but I felt this film need more information on that. And I thought Leia's lack of Jediness was a let down. I also felt the film lacked something at the end, during the end battle. They should have gone all out and had a MASSIVE space battle, as well as the assault on the Death Star, oops, I mean Starkiller. Two huge fleets blowing the shit out of each other. Really go to town on it. That would have made sense to me story-wise (having the New Republic fighting the First Order, not this 'Resistance'), and it would have added real space war specticle to the ending. We haven't had a really good space battle since ROTJ, IMO. And Snoke was very uninteresting to me. Oh look, a random Emperor type out of nowhere, that wants to complete people's training etc. Hmmmm.
Harrison Ford though was MAGNIFICENT and MAGICAL. And Old Man Luke looked BRILLIANT! |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 18, 2015 13:03:03 GMT
Much of Shockprowl's thoughts under spoiler tab 2 echo my own.
-Ralph
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Stomski
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Post by Stomski on Dec 18, 2015 13:28:08 GMT
My first impression was that this was EpIV repeated, but now I get elements of EpVI too, with Han leading an away mission and all. |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 18, 2015 16:32:16 GMT
Indeed. Thinking about why I was so bored and disinterested during the film it is the high amount of repetition of mmmpphhh and mmmppoh (I can never work the spoiler tabs) that we have seen before. I felt like I was watching a remake that wasn't meant to be a remake but felt like one rather than a continuation. Just nothing new in it at all. Abrams had modified his directorial style quite a lot and I think he was going for Lucas' 'point and shoot' style to make it fit with the feel of the 1977 film but for me it came across as flat and uninspired.
I really wanted to like this movie. I wanted to come out beaming and feeling that the magic was back. I was quite surprised and really shocked to feel that I felt that the Prequels were better movies...and I don't even think they're that great.
Sometimes it's just how it goes. I had a similar surprise but in reverse with the fourth Mad Max. I hated the original MM movies and was not looking forward to number 4 but I was astounded by it and it's one of my films of the year!
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 18, 2015 16:43:31 GMT
For those wanting to use the Spoiler tag start the text you want spoilered with this [Spoiler] and end it with this [/Spoiler] EG This is a spoiler |
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 18, 2015 20:22:46 GMT
Much of Shockprowl's thoughts under spoiler tab 2 echo my own. -Ralph Including what I put about the naked Sandpeople? |
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 18, 2015 20:23:31 GMT
{Spoiler}I think I've got it |
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 18, 2015 20:25:17 GMT
Non-goofy spoiler below. {Spoiler}I'm seriously upset by the you-know-what of You-Know-Who. What's the matter with me? I'm 5 again. |
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 18, 2015 20:29:33 GMT
Spoiler
I'm there with you bud. My missus said to me when we got home, "You haven't spoken since we went into the cinema". I didn't even realise. I had a growing feeling through the film that was going to happen, and knew it as soon as the bridge appeared, but even so. I think part of it was that the relationship between Han and his son is so unexplored that the moment was robbed of real emotional intensity between the two because we don't know the history. We're just left with that ache that a childhood hero is gone. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 18, 2015 21:40:35 GMT
Yes I think you've nailed it there, cyber-pal.
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 18, 2015 22:20:12 GMT
So given there is 30 years between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, and a lot is alluded to in the new film but not explained - what is going to explain it? is this stuff that will be revealed in the next two main films, or are we already getting the back story through the novels and comics?
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 18, 2015 22:27:50 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 18, 2015 23:05:17 GMT
So given there is 30 years between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, and a lot is alluded to in the new film but not explained - what is going to explain it? is this stuff that will be revealed in the next two main films, or are we already getting the back story through the novels and comics? I did have a very annoying feeling during the film that important story information would be in other sources. It was decompressed enough as it was. -Ralph |
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Stomski
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Post by Stomski on Dec 18, 2015 23:39:18 GMT
I disagree. I think there was enough in there to draw a decent picture about what's gone before, certainly more than EpIV laid out. Except for the thing I mentioned in spoiler above.
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Post by Baron B of Triple B on Dec 19, 2015 0:01:31 GMT
I've not read anyone else's thoughts but I'm just out and I can see a few people having similar feelings. So.... Just out and I enjoyed it but was slightly underwhelmed. My overriding feeling is we've seen most of it before. A death star. The race against time to blow it up before it gets them. The death scene on the platform with everyone watching. Father and son in conflict. Luke morphing into a combination of looking like Obi Wan and a recluse like Yoda. The baddie lying badly wounded at the end. I also have an issue with Rey magically mastering the force at the precise moments she needed it. Not even the guy who was supposed to have the highest concentration of midichlorians or his offspring managed that without training. She'd heard the word once and suddenly can control it. Some of the acting holds it back. The crap Scottish gangster. The English guy giving the Hitler speeches. Carrie Fishers botox preventing her from speaking. Despite my reservations the girl playing Rey was fine even though she looks and sounds like Keira Knightley.  The guy playing Finn did a good job as well. I was saying to myself that it's part of a trilogy so more will come out and other stuff will make sense. Not that that's an excuse for half arsing elements of this movie. |
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 19, 2015 8:39:38 GMT
Spoiler
Regarding Rey's ability to master the force so quickly, that stood out as odd to me too, but then I thought that is too obvious a problem for them not to have realised, so I think it's deliberate. They're suggesting she is the most powerful Jedi yet, which will eventually lead to her defeating Snoak, or whatever the new emperor's name is.
The question it leaves me with is who she really is. From the flashbacks I assumed it was another mirror to the other films, that she's Kylo Ren's sister and they were separated to protect them like Luke and Leia. Han and Leia always had twins in the old expanded universe didn't they? But then my missus said if she's that powerful she must be Luke's daughter, and hiding her was something he did when he ran away. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 19, 2015 9:41:16 GMT
Some thoughts (some echoing what others have said): I enjoyed it, but it was very familiar at times: youngster from a desert planet learns about the force, something of import placed inside a droid (hmmm even the person who placed it there is captured, interrogated and then rescued), a pupil trained by our main Jedi has gone bad and it's had grave consequences... Then there was Starkiller Base complete with X-Wings targeting a small vulnerable spot. If you're going in chronological order this is the third Death Star in four episodes. Actually with it's long range attack it's more like Palpatine's Galaxy Gun from Dark Empire II/III - although that doesn't really ease the sense of deja vu.
Putting that aside, it was a lot of fun, I liked the new heroes and Han and Chewie were great. It was a bit strange for Poe to disappear for a large chunk of the film: the novelisation does include him waking up on Jakku, but he's still absent for a long time. The book also includes a brief Rey/Poe moment which I'm surprised the film didn't bother with. Enjoyed the stroppy Kylo Ren although I still get his name mixed up with Kybo Ren from the Droids cartoon. Speaking of names: Leia and Han calling their son Ben didn't feel right - I could see Luke doing it (and indeed in old Star Wars he did) but here I just thought 'wait? what?'. Wasn't sure about General Hux at first, but he grew on me. The film left me wondering about a few things (that I'm quite annoyed about):
Rey Nolastname. Now I don't think Rey knows what her last name is, but someone does. My first thought was she's a Solo, but as it became increasingly odd for Han and Leia to not mention this to her, I leaned towards Skywalker. But come the end of the film, there's no answer.
First Order vs. Republic and La Resistance. Others have mentioned it, but why isn't it just the Republic vs. the First Order? The novelisation makes the New Republic seem bogged down in following correct procedures, but if they are OK with La Resistance fighting the First Order why not do it officially. The situation seems well past "it's time to do something".
Snoke. Who is Snoke and where did he come from? It's not like he's someone unknown to our heroes hiding in the shadows either: Leia and Han talk about how he turned Kybo Ben, so people know about him, just not the people in the audience.
Finally...
I don't think the film did a good enough job of explaining WHY there is a map to Luke Skywalker. Watching the film (and admittedly I've only seen it once so I could be wrong about this) it wasn't clear who had made it and how they knew Luke would be there if they followed it. Han says some people think he's gone searching for the first Jedi temple, but it's never confirmed that this is the case.
It is the case however. The novelisation is much clearer on that... It is mentioned that it is a map to the first Jedi temple. There's no explanation for the smaller part but the large part that the First Order has (and which R2 later reveals) was recovered from the old Imperial Archives. The Empire had it from back when they were searching possible Jedi hiding spots.
I don't recall how much of this made it to the film, but what caused R2 to powerup seemed clearer here. When discussing the map, it's mentioned BB-8 only has part of it so where's the rest? Recalling what Ren had said earlier (when trying to get the smaller part from her) Rey tells them about the old imperial archives. At the mention of this R2 powers up and reveals he scanned those archives and then promptly displays the large map (minus the bit BB-8 has).
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Post by legios on Dec 19, 2015 9:49:29 GMT
{Spoiler}
The question it leaves me with is who she really is. From the flashbacks I assumed it was another mirror to the other films, that she's Kylo Ren's sister and they were separated to protect them like Luke and Leia. Han and Leia always had twins in the old expanded universe didn't they? But then my missus said if she's that powerful she must be Luke's daughter, and hiding her was something he did when he ran away. {spoiler} I must admit I was starting to wonder about how easily some of the Force tricks were coming to her, until the fight at the end. Sure, she takes a breath and calls on The Force, but looking at the fight choreaography and Daisy Riley's performance I started to wonder which side it was that was answering her. I heard a distant answer of Master Yoda's "quick to join you in a fight".... I suspect we were only one earth-tremor from a "strike him down and take your place at my side" outcome there.
I'll admit that I am kind of hoping that she's no-one in particular, or at most a "person of destiny", but unrelated to the Skywalker clan. Much as I liked Kylo Ren being a dangerously unstable element, fueled by rage and jealousy rather than the cold, dead, hatred of Darth Vader. Didn't mind Han's death either. They intimated early on that after a lifetime riding his luck he was starting to go overdrawn, so when I saw he was going to gamble on his wife's intuition and hope I kind of knew that the debt was being called in.
All told I thought it was a decent tosh fantasy movie, with a good cast who are very watchable. Best film of the year! Nope - Fury Road exists. Favourite film of the year - Paddington exists. Enjoyable and watchable - for me, yep. [\spoiler]
Karl |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 19, 2015 9:54:54 GMT
Well, good to know important plot details are in the novel rather than the film. Sigh. Thanks for letting us know what they are, Dave.
I had assumed there was no novelisation this time round. I haven't seen one anywhere! Who wrote it?
-Ralph
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 19, 2015 10:12:31 GMT
I had assumed there was no novelisation this time round. I haven't seen one anywhere! Who wrote it? In yet another similarity to the original film: Alan Dean Foster (we even open with another Journal of the Whills excerpt). It's only available as an eBook or audio download at the moment. The print version of the book (and I think a physical CD) are out in January. |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 19, 2015 11:23:07 GMT
Ahhh that explains it. Seems a bit odd not to have the physical copy out for the Christmas market. Most physical books are now sold during the Chrimbo sales period as folk give them as gifts.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 19, 2015 11:48:06 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 19, 2015 11:59:44 GMT
Seems like most of us have seen it now so a show of hands please on who hasn't seen it yet, cares about spoilers and when you're going to see it.
(If you've already seen it, don't care or aren't likely to see it then don't reply!)
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Post by blueshift on Dec 19, 2015 12:10:08 GMT
Seems like most of us have seen it now so a show of hands please on who hasn't seen it yet, cares about spoilers and when you're going to see it. (If you've already seen it, don't care or aren't likely to see it then don't reply!) I have not seen it, I care about spoilers and I browse the forum by 'recent posts'! |
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Stomski
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Post by Stomski on Dec 19, 2015 13:14:11 GMT
The thing about Rey's past is, we don't know what it is. Yes, she's been abandoned, but if the obvious theories are true, then she may have had some exposure to the use of the force before this. Look at how young the younglings in training we see in the prequels are.
A word of warning... Google auto-complete gives some theories, I was only trying to find out how to spell her name!
Main issue with Leia is that Carrie Fisher puts no effort into the accent she used as young Leia. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 19, 2015 19:55:11 GMT
I have no problem with an 'expanded fiction' to support a new movie, but everything I need to know should be in the actual movie itself. And {Spoiler}I felt it wasn't. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 19, 2015 19:57:54 GMT
{Spoiler}I'm going to go see it again, prob' Monday afternoon, and I got The Fear guys, I got The Fear bad. I'm worried when I see it again, without the WOW factor, I'm just going to sit through A New Hope, and I'm really gonna realise it this time. Oh boy. Oh dear oh dear. |
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 19, 2015 20:51:43 GMT
Just got back from seeing it in Imax. Really really happy. Lots of obviously practical effects, a mostly quite small scale story. No overly funny/goofy characters. Well acted, well shot. And best of all Ive watched episodes 1-6 in the last week or so with ROTJ just last night and this one didnt feel the least bit out of place to me. Managed to avoid all spoilers of any kind. I did get the fear though just before it started I went to the toilets and was convinced I would walk past a group that had just finished watching it that would say something. It didn't happen, but afterwards I walked past a little girl maybe 5 years old who was looking at the poster and pointed at {Spoiler}character X and said {Spoiler}something may or may not have happened to him . It was so sweet, but if it had happened 2 hours earlier I would have experienced a violent rage. {Spoiler}Spoiler
I will echo others in saying that it was repeating content from the original trilogy, mostly IV and VI, but I didnt mind that at all. The prequels chose to expand beyond simple fantasy adventure and lost a little bit of the magic. As the first sequel in the new run it seems like a good time to go back to basics. They could have changed little things, not having the opening set on a desert planet again for example. But those Tatooine landscapes are so iconic to Star Wars (in both trilogys) that not using that imagery early would have been worse than the risk of being repetative.
Deathstar type weapons are clearly the weapon of choice for Sith lords and the remains of the Empire were obviously experienced building them so it makes sense to see them again.
Carrie Fishers voice changed between eps V and VI so sadly wasnt expecting anything else. Ford was great and I liked how his story played out. Oddly I didnt get the childhood grief that some of you suffered.
The stormtroopers were interesting, having dropped the clones they seem to have decided recruits aren't good enough so are now kidnapping children and brainwashing them.
Reys lack of back story didnt bother me, I took it that some of it at least, is a mystery to her too and assume that information will be revealed in time. Though her and Finns lightsabrer abilities seemed overly developed at the end of the film. But maybe Ren, with conflicted emotions and with training only from Luke (who himself only got minimal training compared to the Jedi of old) just isnt that good. Powerful, but not that skilled.
The Repulic secretly backing a resistance, but not formally fighting a group that blow up planets is the biggest question mark I have. Even then I can see that after the kicking the prequels got for all the politics and trade disputes, it was felt it was better to gloss over things that head in to that territory.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 19, 2015 23:36:44 GMT
Andu is about to go in. His screening is at...23:45. Comittment!
-Ralph
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More random thoughts...
