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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 10, 2020 19:10:06 GMT
Well, well, we'll never know what Hauler could have achieved if he hadn't been-
*GASP!*
OH MY GOD THAT'S IT!
GRAPPLE KILLED HAULER!
THAT'S WHY WE NEVER SEE HIM AGAIN!!!
NO!
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 10, 2020 19:19:56 GMT
*GASP!* OH MY GOD THAT'S IT! GRAPPLE KILLED HAULER!
THAT'S WHY WE NEVER SEE HIM AGAIN!!!
NO!So... if I showed up one day going by the name Barry, your initial assumption wouldn't be that Martin has changed his name to Barry, but rather that Martin's identical evil twin Barry has killed me and replaced me... but not taken my name? Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 10, 2020 20:44:57 GMT
The value of a life is not based on how much they did. Hauler may have done one thing but that makes him no less worthy of our esteem than Grapple!
-Ralph
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 10, 2020 20:46:25 GMT
It's clearly a conspiracy!
AUTOBOT WIDE.
This one goes RIGHT to the top.
Even... Prowl... *Sobs*
ONLY RATCHET, CLIFFJUMPER, AND HOUND CAN SAVE HAULER NOW!
(The same conspiracy also did away with cartoon Ratchet's sled, also only seen in this MAGNIFICENT scene. It's a scene to seen!)
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 10, 2020 21:31:01 GMT
The value of a life is not based on how much they did. Hauler may have done one thing but that makes him no less worthy of our esteem than Grapple! -Ralph But Hauler was Grapple all along....,, |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 10, 2020 21:34:03 GMT
There's no proof of Hauler's existance outside this episode and that Cliffjumper did anything other than get Grapple's name wrong! |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 10, 2020 21:36:38 GMT
In fact given that we never see Hauler again and that we do see the identical Grapple repeatedly and without other explanation for his arrival, the balance of probability is Cliffjumper getting his name wrong was exactly what happened.
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 10, 2020 21:39:29 GMT
There's no proof of Hauler's existance outside this episode and that Cliffjumper did anything other than get Grapple's name wrong! Other Transformers only exist in one episode. Do you deny them too? -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 10, 2020 21:41:06 GMT
In fact given that we never see Hauler again and that we do see the identical Grapple repeatedly and without other explanation for his arrival, the balance of probability is Cliffjumper getting his name wrong was exactly what happened. As has been pointed out, most Autobots arrive with no explanation. They also often vanish without explanation. Perhaps they go in yhe cupboard where the Dinobots live. -Ralph -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 10, 2020 21:41:57 GMT
Is there are proof of Cliffjumper getting names wrong? Is this a character trait? Nay, nay!
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 10, 2020 22:12:22 GMT
I think the confusion here is: It WAS Grapple that pulled Hound up in the first episode, but Casey Kasem just mis-read his script and delivered the line wrong. He read it as: Cliffjumper: "Hauler! Pull him up!" Whereas it actually read as: Cliffjumper (Holler): "Pull him up!" Nice idea, but Hauler is referred to several times in the direction for that scene in the script. He's actually described as a tow truck, but then Hound is referred to as a dune buggy so we don't want to read too much into that. |
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 10, 2020 22:15:42 GMT
See!!! Brother Pinwig beings proof of Hauler!!!
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jun 10, 2020 22:49:54 GMT
I think Matt's script-based explanation is spot on.
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 10, 2020 22:51:10 GMT
The guy in the original cartoon was blatantly Grapple going by the name of Hauler. Presumably Hauler was the name Uncle Bob had in mind originally, but it got changed before the toy came out. If Bumblebee can change his name to Goldbug, and Divebomb can change his name to Swoop, then Hauler can change his name to Grapple. Obviously we know a lot of name changing happened, but the weird thing is that if Grapple was originally destined to be in the first wave of toys, he isn't in any of the 84 character documentation that Budianski has used in his con talks. The original hand written tech spec tables are there and the firmed up version with fixed names, but there's no Hauler or Grapple in them. He definitely wasn't being considered at the same time the other 84 characters were created. It's also worth pointing out that George Bloom created characters in his script for the pilot mini series; beyond the duplicates using the existing character models and Hotlink's crew, there were a couple of Decepticon Spitfires who had sequences that were cut. It might be that he just made Hauler up because he needed some way to get Hound winched up the cliff. Hauler would be the only one named though, which does seem to put him at a higher level of importance than the others. |
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Post by Benn on Jun 10, 2020 23:33:10 GMT
I am told Windcharger doesn't get named in the three parter either. So Hauler is more real than him!
Hauler also has a different model sheet to Grapple. I mean, maybe they updated it for season 2, but Hauler is lot boxier and squared off.
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Post by Toph on Jun 11, 2020 0:21:38 GMT
Get Siege Grapple as Grapple, and repurpose RtS Solar Grappel as Hauler. Like dude... It's uncanny. Hauler is a much closer match for RtS Grappel than he is Grapple.    |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 11, 2020 6:26:21 GMT
Hauler also has a different model sheet to Grapple. I mean, maybe they updated it for season 2, but Hauler is lot boxier and squared off. Yes I thought that! Hauler and Grapple ARE NOT identical! |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 11, 2020 6:27:52 GMT
Obviously we know a lot of name changing happened, but the weird thing is that if Grapple was originally destined to be in the first wave of toys, he isn't in any of the 84 character documentation that Budianski has used in his con talks. The original hand written tech spec tables are there and the firmed up version with fixed names, but there's no Hauler or Grapple in them. He definitely wasn't being considered at the same time the other 84 characters were created. OK, so maybe Bob had nothing to do with it, but even though it doesn't quite match Grapple's final model sheet, it's too similar to the Diaclone crane truck not to have been based on it. I can't believe that whoever drew that scene was just making up a random crane truck in ignorance of the Diaclone toy that next year became Grapple. Also, Shockwave was in the first episode despite not being in the 1984 toy range. Tfwiki says: Martin |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 11, 2020 6:29:23 GMT
There's no proof of Hauler's existance outside this episode and that Cliffjumper did anything other than get Grapple's name wrong! They're a small crew, it's unlikely anyone of them would forget the name of one of their TEAM. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 11, 2020 6:30:20 GMT
Get Siege Grapple as Grapple, and repurpose RtS Solar Grappel as Hauler. Like dude... It's uncanny. Hauler is a much closer match for RtS Grappel than he is Grapple. Oh wow look at that! He's right! THERE'S HAULER!!! |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 11, 2020 7:39:35 GMT
Further evidence to support the theory that Grapple (working name: Hauler) was known about earlier than the likes of Ramjet, Smokescreen and Powerglide, explaining his appearance in season 1 of the cartoon. Look at the two variants of the 1985 back-of-the-box art: botchthecrab.com/galleryImage.asp?gallery=2&image=34botchthecrab.com/galleryImage.asp?gallery=2&image=35Excluding characters who never appeared in the cartoon (Jumpstarters, red Tracks, Whirl, Deluxe Insecticons), what do almost all the remaining characters pictured have in common? Shockwave, Jetfire, Dinobots, Insecticons, Constructicons, Grapple/Hauler - all season 1 characters. Blitzwing is the only one I see who doesn't fit this pattern. But it suggests these guys were known about earlier than many other 1985 toys. Maybe. Martin |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 11, 2020 7:47:55 GMT
Interesting theory, Grand Moff...
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,243
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Post by The Huff on Jun 11, 2020 7:57:23 GMT
If they really needed a character to winch Hound up a cliff that makes sense. I can't think of anyone else who uses a grappling hook/winch attachment prominently in the pilot episodes, man.
If he is retconned to have a different robot mode (like the RTS toy but would be nice to go completely different) that would be a goid solution.
The character model of the crane does look boxer here, but a lot of characters looked different in these episides yo later ones. Optimus for example.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 11, 2020 8:20:41 GMT
I can't think of anyone else who uses a grappling hook/winch attachment prominently in the pilot episodes, man. The cartoon was there to promote the toy line. How many kids were disappointed to get Jazz and find that he just had normal, fixed hands... Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 11, 2020 10:08:26 GMT
I think Matt's script-based explanation is spot on. And yet, Pinwig, who has read the script is wrong? -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 11, 2020 10:17:19 GMT
Hauler also has a different model sheet to Grapple. I mean, maybe they updated it for season 2, but Hauler is lot boxier and squared off. Yes I thought that! Hauler and Grapple ARE NOT identical! Truth, Brother Shockprowl. -Ralph |
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,243
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Post by The Huff on Jun 11, 2020 13:17:53 GMT
I can't think of anyone else who uses a grappling hook/winch attachment prominently in the pilot episodes, man. The cartoon was there to promote the toy line. How many kids were disappointed to get Jazz and find that he just had normal, fixed hands... Martin I think they were dissapointed in much bigger things if they were expecting the cartoon robots as toys. It always irritated me as I couldn't work out how the hand went in and something else came out at the same time. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 11, 2020 14:44:11 GMT
I think Matt's script-based explanation is spot on. And yet, Pinwig, who has read the script is wrong? -Ralph Hmmm, this M friend of yours can't be much of a Scientologist, Doc'. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 11, 2020 16:34:02 GMT
Like dude... It's uncanny. Hauler is a much closer match for RtS Grappel than he is Grapple. Oh wow look at that! He's right! THERE'S HAULER!!! Oh shit! Inferno Volt! The the the Grappley recolour of Armada/Energon Inferno! Would would would he make a good Hauler?! I freakin' used to own one of them yonks ago! Bugger it! |
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,243
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Post by The Huff on Jun 11, 2020 17:49:06 GMT
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