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Post by Pinwig on Jun 11, 2020 21:11:47 GMT
OK, so maybe Bob had nothing to do with it, but even though it doesn't quite match Grapple's final model sheet, it's too similar to the Diaclone crane truck not to have been based on it. I can't believe that whoever drew that scene was just making up a random crane truck in ignorance of the Diaclone toy that next year became Grapple. Yes, I think it's pretty clear Hauler is based on what became Grapple. It may be he was originally intended to be in the 84 line, but it just seems odd there's no reference to him anywhere other than one line in a script. If Bloom put a character in to haul Hound up, that early on it might have been that the storyboarders had a pile of Diaclone toys as reference and the original orange Diaclone Grapple was among them so they used it. The point about the box art is really interesting. Hasbro's first 1985 product listing sheet doesn't have the second wave of Diaclone cars on it, but it does have all the other characters in those images. Grapple has snuck on there just like the red Tracks, again perhaps in his Diaclone colouring rather than actually being Grapple. Yes but the first season was largely about introducing the first 85 toys, he was just the first one done after the initial range, fast enough to just make it into the pilot in a late script amendment. His inclusion is interesting; I think it was a choice made when they knew a full series was coming so he became a way to keep Cybertron in the series, which was something the script editors who came onboard for the series proper were big on. So he was forced in, and that had the knock on effect of his character biography being rewritten from the toy one. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jun 11, 2020 21:42:02 GMT
With Hauler alongside Ratchet's repair bay mode it does suggest this was a very early scene and they hadn't quite worked out all the specifics yet.
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 11, 2020 21:50:31 GMT
Wow. If you want this to get really weird, the animation reference sheets for the pilot cartoon include the vehicle and robot mode for what became *Inferno*, not Grapple.
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 11, 2020 21:53:12 GMT
With Hauler alongside Ratchet's repair bay mode it does suggest this was a very early scene and they hadn't quite worked out all the specifics yet. Oh yes, it's all very early stuff. Ratchet and Ironhide both have their MARB bits in the first animation reference sheets. The shot Matt posted is a direct copy from that. |
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 11, 2020 21:56:32 GMT
Wow. If you want this to get really weird, the animation reference sheets for the pilot cartoon include the vehicle and robot mode for what became *Inferno*, not Grapple. More proof that Grapple did not exist then! Phil is mad!!! -Ralph |
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Post by Toph on Jun 11, 2020 22:22:30 GMT
Some things were available earlier than their listings.
Even though they didn't show up in catalogues, I know the scramble combiners were available in '85.
I'm pretty sure that Grimlock, Slag, Sludge, and Shockwave were available at some point in '84, though I don't have any proof.
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 12, 2020 7:55:02 GMT
Doc', what do you think Hauler's head and face would be like? Were he not denied a robot mode by silly cartoon makers and Phil.
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 12, 2020 9:46:40 GMT
In some ways, he was Stealth Force 30 years early!
His head would look like a robot.
-ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 12, 2020 9:53:39 GMT
Next you'll be telling us that Jawbreaker and Overbite are different Decepticons.
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 12, 2020 10:09:02 GMT
THEY ARE.
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jun 12, 2020 10:30:16 GMT
NOT.
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 12, 2020 13:02:23 GMT
Anyway,
We need to figure out a Techspecs for Hauler!
Function. Construction?
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 12, 2020 13:08:34 GMT
Anyway, We need to figure out a Techspecs for Hauler! Function. Construction? Function: Pulling Hound out of the ravine Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 12, 2020 13:19:23 GMT
Anyway, We need to figure out a Techspecs for Hauler! Function. Construction? Or Power Plans? -Ralph |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 12, 2020 15:40:09 GMT
Anyway, We need to figure out a Techspecs for Hauler! Function. Construction? Or Power Plans? -Ralph He's not an Action Master, Doctor. Power Pants only apply to Action Masters. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 12, 2020 15:57:30 GMT
Anyway, We need to figure out a Techspecs for Hauler! Function. Construction? Function: Pulling Hound out of the ravine Martin That implies Hound gets blasted into ravines with some regularity if there's an Autobot whose function is purely to full him back out of ravines. I think Prowl needs to assess Hound's driving. There's a comic strip there, me thinks! Prowl- "Now look, Hound, your bravery and scouting skills are unsurpassed. But we're now having to have a Autobot whose SOLE FUNCTION is to pull you out of ravines and the like. This is clearly NOT a logical use of resources. Hauler could be helping Grapple build his latest masterpiece, or helping Wheeljack build his latest large scale project (Matrix help us). So, it's Driving Test Time." Hauler-"Aye-up, Hound, Brain-bot's got a point thyre. Am getting them there stress-fractures in me crane-arm fettlin' you out them there ravines 'n' such so oft'!" Hound-"But I was blasted into the ravine the last time!" Hauler-"Aye, that's as sure as mustn't, but yr helpin' no one wi' such unself-awaredness, 'n'no mistake. That's not wot Prime taught thee." Hound-"Ok, ok. I suppose it can't hurt." Hauler-"Good lad." |
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Post by Benn on Jun 12, 2020 16:14:13 GMT
Anyway, We need to figure out a Techspecs for Hauler! Function. Construction? Given his cartoon appearance, his function is Search and Rescue, surely? |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 12, 2020 16:21:01 GMT
Anyway, We need to figure out a Techspecs for Hauler! Function. Construction? Hauler Allegiance: Autobot Function: Architect "Beauty is in everything except war." On Cybertron his buildings are considered works of art... On Earth his ideas limited by war. Takes pride in his work, prone to severe depression if they're destroyed in battle. As crane can lift up to 35-ton object and position it with precision and grace. As robot has high-temperature arc-welder rifle... can launch rockets 4.5 miles from wrist sockets. Prone to breakdowns in vehicle mode. Strength 8 Intelligence 8 Speed 3 Endurance 4 Rank 7 Courage 7 Firepower 7 Skill 9 |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 12, 2020 16:46:32 GMT
He's not an Action Master, Doctor. How do you know? We've only ever seen him in one mode. Oh no, I forgot, we've also seen him in robot mode. After he changes his name to Grapple. Martin |
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 12, 2020 17:00:07 GMT
Shockprowl's started writing fan fiction!
Wait a minute, why is Hauler from Yorkshire?
Oh, oh I see.
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 12, 2020 18:47:06 GMT
Phil!!!! Hauler is not Grapple!
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 12, 2020 19:01:30 GMT
That tech spec is as different to Grapple's as the Hauler in MTMTE is to the character in s2 onwards !
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 12, 2020 20:13:24 GMT
Don't talk pish! How can an S2 character be from the pilot when the s2 character did not exist during the pilot!
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 12, 2020 20:19:26 GMT
Don't talk pish! How can an S2 character be from the pilot when the s2 character did not exist during the pilot! Ask Shockwave. Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 12, 2020 20:38:15 GMT
Shockwave was not a different character in the pilot the way Hauler was!
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 12, 2020 20:45:50 GMT
How is Shockwave a season two character?
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 12, 2020 20:58:06 GMT
He's not, but he's from year 2 of the toy range, like Hauler/Grapple, so if the show's creators knew about Shockwave they could know about the crane guy. Only difference is they kept Shockwave's name the same as it was in the pilot when the toy eventually materialised.
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 12, 2020 21:17:41 GMT
Now the Hauler deniers have made up two different year 2's!!! Moons of madness!!!
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 12, 2020 21:41:07 GMT
The show's creators knew about Shockwave because his toy info had been passed to them so a character model was devised and his cartoon incarnation created, just like Jetfire, the Dinobots, the Insecticons and the Constructicons, all through the period March to August 1984.
I think how we interpret Hauler is always going to be contentious. None of the info the other characters have exists for him at that point; no reference in Budianski's notes and no character model. The evidence there is for him is the fact he's referred to in the script, and a drawing of Inferno, which is copied from a toy photo and isn't a character 'design' in the same style as the others, is included in one of the first animation guide documents sent to Toei. That image is in a numbered list of the initial characters but then disappears in any documentation subsequent to that. The way he appears in the first episode is odd looking because the artists were basically interpretting a toy photo from a different angle and not using any cartoon reference images.
Not easy to draw a conclusion from that. Maybe he was included by mistake. It feels like his Diaclone toy was among a bunch of toys used as samples/reference and he got included by accident - the annoying fact his Diaclone toy is the same colour as his transformers version makes it hard to know which one it is, but the red Tracks in the box art suggests it's Diaclone.
There is evidence of info being sent to marvel productions that was changed by marvel comics and productions then not being updated - simplest example is how Spike became Buster but Marvel Productions weren't told. So perhaps hauler was on a Hasbro list somewhere at some point early on that budianski was told to ignore, but it hung around at Productions long enough to get into Bloom's script, which prompted someone to find a visual reference.
It's fascinating, but chances are we'll never know for sure.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 12, 2020 22:42:48 GMT
Grapple is a late release in the Diaclone range. In fact he's the penultimate car behind Tracks.
I can believe the plan was for him to be released in w2 of the cars (Prowl, Sunstreaker, Trailbreaker, Ironhide & Wheeljack) to complete the set of six. But somewhere along the line SOMETHING happens, and it happens quite early on. Maybe the toy got delayed in it's Japanese release and Takara called first dibs, maybe the mould couldn't be found. But whatever, the toy gets pulled and the cartoon, with a longer lead time, is the only remaining trace of it. No further development is done on the character prior to MTMTE, unlike the likes of Spin Out, he never receives an updated final name for the broadcast cartoon.
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