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Post by Pinwig on Jun 12, 2020 23:03:32 GMT
That's interesting. Particularly because Tracks and Grapple are the two in the box art. How late is late do we know?
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 13, 2020 6:27:30 GMT
From memory, late 83, early 84. I'll see if I can find some dates....l
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 13, 2020 9:01:18 GMT
Phil now makes up phantom toys!
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 13, 2020 9:14:13 GMT
Ooh. Right so we know the transformer characters were being designed in autumn 83, those colouring guides we saw a while back were dated November. So maybe you're right in that those last two Diaclone cars at some point got passed to Hasbro in error and were pulled back, but somehow weren't removed from the info sent to other places like the box artist and marvel productions.
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Post by Benn on Jun 13, 2020 12:18:48 GMT
Does Red Alert turning up early in Marvel UK have any bearing on this? Or was that late enough for him to have a toy on shelves?
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 13, 2020 12:33:40 GMT
Does Red Alert turning up early in Marvel UK have any bearing on this? Or was that late enough for him to have a toy on shelves? Red Alert's TFUK appearance was in April 1985, so he may well have been out by then. The cartoon pilot featuring Shockwave and Hauler/Grapple was broadcast in September 1984. Martin |
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 13, 2020 13:13:22 GMT
It's possible. By coincidence, I was just now looking over the early info again and the line up of characters is wrong compared to the chart for the pilot series. It doesn't have info/models for Ironhide, Ratchet, Trailbreaker or Sunstreaker, but it does have Inferno and Red Alert. What's interesting is that although it's all in Japanese, Inferno's info has the number 8000 in the middle of it, so it's clearly his tech spec. That tells us Red Alert and Inferno were created as characters not long after the original 84 toys and well before the the cartoon was made. It's so frustrating not all the old documentation is dated. That would help a lot.
It does point at the decision process as to which Diaclone toys would be used evolving and changing before the pilot series/comic was locked in. It's also weird that of those four added later, Sunstreaker would have to be the same height as Sideswipe to be his twin, but the other three are the ones that ended up being taller than the others. I've always wondered why those three are taller than the others when their toys don't suggest a need for that. Perhaps if they were added later, the choice was made to make them taller just for variety.
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 13, 2020 14:21:00 GMT
And yet still no evidence that Grapple existed then.
Hauler lives.
Case closed.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 13, 2020 14:24:09 GMT
And yet still no evidence that Grapple existed then. Apart from seeing him on screen with our own eyes, going under the name of Hauler. Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 13, 2020 14:25:01 GMT
Oh ffs. If we go by EVIDENCE ON SCREEN IN DIALOGUE he is called HAULER NOT GRAPPLE.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 13, 2020 15:13:42 GMT
Yes. As we have all agreed.
Martin
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Post by Benn on Jun 13, 2020 15:36:40 GMT
He's called Hauler. He has a different animation model.
I'm happy for Hauler to be Hauler, given all the other Decepticons given life after the fact who were NOT named in the OG cartoon.
The behind the scenes of how he came to be there, whether as an early working name for a subsequently delayed and renamed Grapple is interesting, but Hauler is Hauler. Soundwave had a tape that turned into a wheeled drone thing, but no-one claims it's a rarely seen third mode for Rumble.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 13, 2020 15:43:28 GMT
Oh well. As Soundwave and Grimlock always told us in the letters page, the cartoon is nonsense and got lots of things wrong, and the comic the only true account of the TF war. And thankfully in the comic Grapple was only ever known as Grapple.
Martin
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Post by Benn on Jun 13, 2020 17:13:06 GMT
We're not going to see Hauler in the Martin-verse, then?
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 13, 2020 17:36:29 GMT
We're not going to see Hauler in the Martin-verse, then? Actually, he's in there, and as a separate character from Grapple, but he's never been a yellow crane Grapple lookalike and never pulled Hound out of a ravine. "'History records the thirty-first of January, 2020, as being a day on which an idiot bonged a gong.'" Two doors down from the Great War Museum, between Crosshairs' weapons shop and Landfill's recycling centre, directly opposite Grapple and Hauler's workshop and below Mainframe and Pushbutton's computer centre, was the Museum of Human Cultural Artefacts. There, museum curator Pipes was just putting the finishing touches to a display on Earth history in the second decade of the Second Millennium (2011-2020), when he received an urgent call from his neighbour and friend, Quodji the Quintesson. Martin |
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Post by Toph on Jun 13, 2020 18:01:30 GMT
1) It is obvious that the non-speaking, non transforming Hauler is based on the toy that would become who we know as Grapple. For reasons we will likely never know, Hauler/Grapple was removed, but somehow the last scrap of it survived to this contentious scene.
2) Hauler has since been canonized to his own character, with his own back story.
These two statements are both true, and are not contradictory.
I mean, ultimately, "Hauler" is so meaningless that they could have easily retconned him out by saying the autobots just went and got a normal crane from somewhere.
But we've since got a new character from another sunbow flub.
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 13, 2020 22:06:55 GMT
Oh shit! I just bought a RTS Grapple!
A BOXY DOESN'T LOOK A BIT LIKE GRAPPLE GRAPPLE TOY THAT IS CLEARLY A HOMAGE TO HAULER!
HAULER WILL JOIN MY COLLECTION!
This is your fault, CJ...
The childrens will be so happy! We've often remarked on the mysterious Hauler...
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,243
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Post by The Huff on Jun 13, 2020 22:18:48 GMT
Speaking of strange non-released toy additions (at the time) Haulers scene is followed by Reflector's introduction - another toy not released at the time.
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Post by Toph on Jun 13, 2020 22:35:02 GMT
Oh shit! I just bought a RTS Grapple! A BOXY DOESN'T LOOK A BIT LIKE GRAPPLE GRAPPLE TOY THAT IS CLEARLY A HOMAGE TO HAULER! HAULER WILL JOIN MY COLLECTION!This is your fault, CJ... The childrens will be so happy! We've often remarked on the mysterious Hauler... What can I say, except "you're welcome!" |
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 13, 2020 23:44:33 GMT
Reflector was really hard done by in the first season. Almost all of his scenes were cut once his toy was dropped. There's loads of stuff with him in that didn't get past the script stage.
That's a good point actually, Budianski didn't have him on his initial character list either but he has a bio in the cartoon Bible that fits stylistically with the others.
Ah, I see what was going on here. I've just realised something. Budianski must have been writing the portraits of the toys as Hasbro were feeding them to him, but the tech spec numbers were only done when Hasbro settled on which toys were being released first. That would explain why Red Alert, Reflector, Inferno etc are all there at the beginning but then disappear.
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 14, 2020 7:49:36 GMT
So, I'm thinking 'Construction' as a Function. Not 'Construction Engineer' or nuthin', he's a worker. A tough, focussed type, who always gets the job done.
...he needs a quirk, though...
...and a Moto...
Hauler's obviously strong, but he needs some kind of ability...
Grand Moff Martin, the Techspecs Wizzard, what do you think of these values?
Strength: 9 or... 10? (RTS is going to be huge next to Siege if my research is accurate. So he could be a 10, the only other ten in the Autobot '84ers! That would interfere with Brawn's 'second strongest Autobot', though. Which is a problem.
Intelligence: 6
Speed: 3 not too fast
Endurance: 10 definitely
Rank: hmmmm... 5 or 6?
Courage: 9
Firepower: not sure what weaponry this figures comes with.
Skill: a solid 7
I wonder if I can carefully mod his face... give him a faceplate. I see Hauler having a faceplate. Moding TFs isn't something I've ever done, and don't feel I would be good at...
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 14, 2020 7:57:26 GMT
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 14, 2020 8:49:38 GMT
Hmmmmm, interesting, interesting.
I'm not comfortable with the 'Hauler was a Constructicon' backstory, and he doesn't strike me as capricious, and the hand thing is just weird, but some interesting stuff in there. 'Vibro-force gun'...
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jun 14, 2020 9:16:12 GMT
A jack hammer.
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 23, 2021 21:48:15 GMT
Oh hey, Road Hauler, Shockers! Green Grapple! Hauler IS NOT green, dude. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 23, 2021 22:08:52 GMT
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 24, 2021 6:21:36 GMT
More than meets the eye says otherwise.
Martin will make the picture appear.
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Post by Toph on Sept 24, 2021 6:25:25 GMT
I'll bet you a hundred bucks that's what Road Hauler will look like, Shockers
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 24, 2021 10:56:54 GMT
Road Hauler can be green if he wants to be. But Hauler is not green.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 24, 2021 12:29:08 GMT
Hauler was orange ONCE when someone got Grapple's name wrong Hauler is green in ALL his other appearances |
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