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Post by The Doctor on Sept 6, 2012 17:38:37 GMT
No-one ever talks about John Wiles, arguably Doctor Who's most under-rated and least recognised creative force (I can recall his obit in DWM #279 being very positive but that's about it). But look at season 3 and the breadth and depth of it as well as the variety (much of the back-half was inherited from his time even though he had packed the job in by then). By trying to do something different with the show after taking over from the original producer, he did a lot to revitalise it and ensure its longevity. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wiles-Ralph |
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Post by blueshift on Sept 7, 2012 9:40:20 GMT
So many wrong opinions! Lets move on to season 4
The Smugglers -
The Tenth Planet -
The Power of the Daleks -
The Highlanders -
The Underwater Menace -
The Moonbase -
The Macra Terror -
The Faceless Ones -
The Evil of the Daleks -
What do I think, hmmmmm
The Smugglers - 5 - I wanted to like it, I really did, but it's just /there/. I think this is one of those stories that really does rely on the visuals to tell a story.
The Tenth Planet - 8
The Power of the Daleks - 7 (YES YES I KNOW SORRY, it is good but not that good!)
The Highlanders - 3
The Underwater Menace - 5
The Moonbase - 6
The Macra Terror - 7
The Faceless Ones - 5
The Evil of the Daleks - 8
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 7, 2012 11:21:36 GMT
The Smugglers - 8 top historical romp and a wonderful opening completely restating the series
The Tenth Planet - 10 Cybermen, Regeneration.... ok Hartnell's absent lots and 3 is rubbish but
The Power of the Daleks - 10 Fabulous. Troughton out the gates as a fully formed Doctor, something new with the Daleks that you know is going to go Tits and sure enough it does....
The Highlanders - 4 doesn't really do it for me
The Underwater Menace - 7: the end of episode 1/start of two is the scariest thing ever. The surviving episode 3 is a bit...... odd. but the rest is gold
The Moonbase - 10.
The Macra Terror - 7 DW does the Prisoner
The Faceless Ones - 7
The Evil of the Daleks - 8 Very good surviving episode but .... somehow not quite the classic everyone makes out
Strong, strong season.
Mr Marshall appears to voted incorrectly for the Moonbase....
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 7, 2012 17:05:55 GMT
He did indeed.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 7, 2012 19:15:13 GMT
The Smugglers - 8
The Tenth Planet - 10
The Power of the Daleks - 10
The Highlanders - 8
The Underwater Menace - 9
The Moonbase - 10
The Macra Terror - 5
The Faceless Ones - 6
The Evil of the Daleks - 10
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Sept 7, 2012 20:30:45 GMT
The Smugglers - 10 a really good historical romp and a good debut for Ben and Polly as actual traveling companions.
The Tenth Planet - 10 The debut of my favourite DW Monster, in their original intent as tragic shells of humanity - and then it changes the game completely and does something that violates all the rules of contemporary television at the end.
The Power of the Daleks - 10 Daleks whose intelligence and psychological savvy is far more dangerous than their gunsticks. Troughton playing a blinder right off the blocks. The single Who story I have experienced more than any other in fact.
The Highlanders - 7. The last Historical proper as I recall, sadly not the strongest. It is enjoyable, I just think it is overshadowed by its company
The Underwater Menace - 8 I suspect that the surviving episode is very much the weakest. The main villian is far enough over the top to be somewhere in the enemies back lines but given how radio rental Zarroff is written I'm not sure that is actually a flaw anyway.
The Moonbase - 9 And here come the other version of the Cybermen. Not really related to the first lot and more straightforwardly monstery - but this is a lovely bit of "base under seige" tosh
The Macra Terror - 6
The Faceless Ones - 6
The Evil of the Daleks -10
Karl
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Post by blueshift on Sept 15, 2012 8:47:30 GMT
What do we think about...
SEASON FIVE?
The Tomb of the Cybermen -
The Abominable Snowmen -
The Ice Warriors -
The Enemy of the World -
The Web of Fear -
Fury from the Deep -
The Wheel in Space -
The Tomb of the Cybermen - 9
The Abominable Snowmen - Still to listen to!
The Ice Warriors - 6
The Enemy of the World - 3 (I wanted to like it but my goodness I actually fell asleep. Maybe it needs another go)
The Web of Fear - 9
Fury from the Deep - Still to listen to!
The Wheel in Space - 7
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 15, 2012 14:52:27 GMT
The Tomb of the Cybermen - 9 I can remember when Tomb reappeared
The Abominable Snowmen - 10 just superb. The extant episode 2 is one of my fave Troughton episodes
The Ice Warriors - 7 I think the first three episodes are the best plods a bit after that. Unfortunately 2 & 3 are missing.
The Enemy of the World - 7 Most mental plot twist ever
The Web of Fear - 10 SUPERB I want the remaining five episodes back now!
Fury from the Deep - 9 a crime none of it remains
The Wheel in Space - 3 oh my goodness. slow moving, boring and a barking cyber plan!
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 15, 2012 14:53:15 GMT
Matt have you got Snowmen and Fury?
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Post by blueshift on Sept 15, 2012 23:26:23 GMT
Matt have you got Snowmen and Fury? I do! You gave them to me, and I then bought the CDs because I want to give the BBC all my money! I am just pacing myself, dont' want to rush having experienced all of Who! |
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 16, 2012 19:28:08 GMT
The Tomb of the Cybermen - 10
The Abominable Snowmen - 5
The Ice Warriors - 9
The Enemy of the World - 7
The Web of Fear - 10
Fury from the Deep - 10
The Wheel in Space - 9
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Sept 16, 2012 21:00:03 GMT
The Tomb of the Cybermen - 9 (Some great PatDoc stuff in here and some enjoyable Cybermen stuff)
The Abominable Snowmen - 6 ( I like the setting, I like the idea of it but it doesn't quite gell together)
The Ice Warriors - 9
The Enemy of the World - 7 (Doctor Who does The Avengers, with Patrick Troughton effectively a counter-espionage agent in a shabby outfit instead of a suit and bowler hat)
The Web of Fear - 10 (I remember seeing stills and reading a write-up for this story when I was a nipper - it took on a certain stature in my mind as a result - the good thing is that it absolutely lives up to that weight of expectation
Fury from the Deep - 10 (The definite Troughton "base under siege" story, with the weed heartbeat being the equal of the roaring of the Project:Inferno drill as a tension raiser)
The Wheel in Space - 7 (Too long for its material really, and possibly the most convoluted and barmy Cyberplan ever. They appear to know less about space than the writer does - which is a shame seeing as the Cybermen actually live there... Still, the early episodes are quite enjoyable and Troughton does get a cracking face-off with the Cyber-mooks)
Karl
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Post by blueshift on Sept 29, 2012 11:27:03 GMT
Season 6!
The Dominators -
The Mind Robber -
The Invasion -
The Krotons -
The Seeds of Death -
The Space Pirates -
The War Games -
The Dominators - 1
ARGH NO WHY DID YOU HAVE TO LIVE AND THE OTHERS DIE?!?!
The Mind Robber - 10
The Invasion - 9
The Krotons - 7
The Seeds of Death - 5
The Space Pirates - 6
The War Games - 10
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Post by blueshift on Sept 29, 2012 12:03:51 GMT
So, what did we all think of the Hartnell years? Let's see the average score for each story, totted up! Everyone voted for everything, Andy's late votes for Tenth Planet and Smugglers saw the latter take a beating! 1 The Tenth Planet 9.4 2 The Aztecs 9.2 3= Marco Polo 8.8 3= The Romans 8.8 5 The Reign of Terror 8.75 6= An Unearthly Child 8.4 6= The Rescue 8.4 6= Mission to the Unknown 8.4 6= The Myth Makers 8.4 6= The War Machines 8.4 11 The Crusade 8.2 12 The Daleks 8 13 The Daleks' Master Plan 7.6 14= The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve 7.4 14= The Smugglers 7.4 16= The Time Meddler 7 16= Galaxy 4 7 18 The Edge of Destruction 6.8 19 The Ark 6.6 20= The Keys of Marinus 6 20= The Dalek Invasion of Earth 6 22= The Sensorites 5.8 22= Planet of Giants 5.8 24= The Gunfighters 5.8 24= The Savages 5.8 26 The Web Planet 3.8 27 The Space Museum 3.2 28 The Chase 2.8 29 The Celestial Toymaker 2.4 Tenth Planet wins, by quite a bit! It's a bit of a shock actually, but quite a few Hartnells polarised people a bit, this is one of those stories where everyone liked it. Quite a few ties, obviously people need to be more controversial in their opinions! The Gunfighters is way too low though. Only Phil and I gave it the correct scores, everyone else needs to go back to the Last Chance Saloon and try again. Who has the Hots for Hartnell? Let's look at each person's average Hartnell score! 1. Ralph 7.6 2. Karl 7.3 3. Andy T 6.7 4. Matt 6.6 5. Phil 6.2 It's Ralph! Probably due to his lust for the Sensorites. Most sane people gave that story low marks, thus plunging the average scores down. Phil is way at the bottom due to his foolish dislike for The Massacre and The Crusade. The overall Hub score for Hartnell is 6.9 Lets have a few graphs to finish it off! Firstly, the average of all the scores! Looks like season 3 was the biggest hit! Bring it back, BBC!  And lastly, a super confusing graph comparing everyone's scores. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 29, 2012 15:12:51 GMT
Chalk and cheese this season: no real middle ground:
The Dominators - 1 Wake me at the end.
The Mind Robber - 3 Fab first episode but goes off the rails after that
The Invasion - 9 looses a mark for taking 4 episodes to show the monster, another two for the Invasion to get going and then spends ages poncing about with missiles. But apart from that it's cracking. And it's the first Benton story!
The Krotons - 8 fab stuff.
The Seeds of Death - 3 another snore fest
The Space Pirates - 0 My lord that train journey where I listened to the last 4 episodes on the bounce is still a painful memory
The War Games - 10 Grown massively on me over the years uses it's 10 episodes really well. Edward Brayshaw is my only real problem with it and only then because the words "Mr Meeker from Rentaghost" keep popping into my head. Philip Madoc is superb.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 29, 2012 15:24:54 GMT
The Smugglers - 6
The Tenth Planet - 9
The Power of the Daleks - 10
The Highlanders - 6
The Underwater Menace - 8
The Moonbase - 9
The Macra Terror - 6
The Faceless Ones - 4
The Evil of the Daleks - 10
Andy
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 29, 2012 15:26:32 GMT
The Tomb of the Cybermen - 10
The Abominable Snowmen - 5
The Ice Warriors - 7
The Enemy of the World - 7
The Web of Fear - 7
Fury from the Deep - 8
The Wheel in Space - 9
Andy
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 29, 2012 15:27:41 GMT
The Dominators - 5
The Mind Robber - 5
The Invasion - 10
The Krotons - 7
The Seeds of Death - 4
The Space Pirates - 2
The War Games - 10
Andy
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Post by blueshift on Sept 29, 2012 15:40:52 GMT
Whats with all this dislike for The Mind Robber  |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 29, 2012 15:44:05 GMT
Just didn't do much for me is all.
Andy
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 29, 2012 16:57:02 GMT
It's over rated nonsense, that's what
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 29, 2012 17:54:58 GMT
The Dominators - 7. Yes, I like. Must get the DVD at some point.
The Mind Robber - 10. Amazing.
The Invasion - 6. PACKER!!!!! But overlong and the music annoys the fuck out of me.
The Krotons - 8. On first viewing I loathed it, but when I watched Andu's DVD I really really enjoyed it.
The Seeds of Death - 6. Beautifully shot, but it goes on and on and on.
The Space Pirates - 2. Oh dear.
The War Games - 10. Perfect!
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 29, 2012 17:58:35 GMT
It's over rated nonsense, that's what You and Andu are broken in the head! -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 29, 2012 17:59:11 GMT
Whats with all this dislike for The Mind Robber It is madness. You need to update your exciting graphs. Andu has voted on the last 2 Hartnells! -Ralph |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 29, 2012 18:02:09 GMT
Indeed he has.
Validate my opinions in graph form dammit!!!!
aNdy
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Post by legios on Sept 29, 2012 20:40:34 GMT
Season 6!
The Dominators - 6 (It is a bit of a mess, but the amount of fun that Troughton and Hines are having bleeds through and the "married couple" bickering of the two Dominators entertains me).
The Mind Robber - 9 (A game of two segments - a lovely surreal and sinister opening episode, and then the story turns around and starts playing games with fiction and reality. Great stuff)
The Invasion - 10 (The Cybermen write the "invade Earth" procedures manual for Doctor Who aliens, Tobias Vaughn is a fantastic performance... Probably one of my favourite, if not my actual favourite Cyberman story).
The Krotons - 9 (Yes, it has quite a few flaws - yes it isn't as polished a script as its writer would produce in time. On the other hand, it is the first Troughton story I saw, and it has a nice strong central idea into the bargain and the regular cast are on fine form)
The Seeds of Death - 2 (Oh my stars and garters. Too long and with a plot that is powered by just about everyone on both sides being thoroughly stupid).
The Space Pirates - 1 (if it moved any slower it would loop back around to being really fast. With barely enough plot for a three-parter even back then it just seems to take forever).
The War Games - 10 (Clever use of location switching and sleight of hand about what is really going on means that the episodes just fly by. Pretty much pitch perfect really. And then it goes and gives us the seeds of a whole new mythology for Doctor Who just as it is starting to wrap things up. Cracking, cracking stuff)
Karl
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Post by blueshift on Sept 29, 2012 20:47:01 GMT
You know, the Space Pirates isn't nearly as bad as you all think. Poor Space Pirates |
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 30, 2012 9:07:44 GMT
It is. I had a higher opinion of it when I just had the surviving episode to go on. It had a watchable hammy quality and the models were good. I had hope the other episodes contained Underwater Menace type insanity. Then I heard the soundtrack and it was a chore. I would love to be proved wrong, but I doubt the lack of visuals affects it.
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on Sept 30, 2012 10:53:08 GMT
I have revised the above Hartnell years post to include Andy's late ratings. Now I am 4th in liking Hartnell (this is untrue, but personally his years had some amazing stories but also some terrible ones). Onto the Troughton years! What did we think of the Trought? What are the average Hub scores? 1 The War Games 10.00 2= The Power of the Daleks 9.40 2= The Tomb of the Cybermen 9.40 4= The Evil of the Daleks 9.20 4= The Web of Fear 9.20 6 Fury from the Deep 9.00 7= The Moonbase 8.80 7= The Invasion 8.80 9 The Krotons 7.80 10 The Ice Warriors 7.60 11= The Underwater Menace 7.40 11= The Mind Robber 7.40 13 The Wheel in Space 7.00 14 The Abominable Snowmen 6.40 15= The Macra Terror 6.20 15= The Enemy of the World 6.20 17= The Highlanders 5.60 17= The Faceless Ones 5.60 19= The Dominators 4.00 19= The Seeds of Death 4.00 21 The Space Pirates 2.20 War Games wins with a perfect 10/10! Will we ever see the like again? Power and Tomb share second place, and well, at least one of those survives! Power would have got a perfect 10/10 if I had scored it 10, but I was grumpy and went 7, sorry. Krotons is surprisingly high, but then again I've never quite understood the dislike for that one, it's perfectly decent. Will Underwater Menace climb even higher once we see episode 2? Finally, there's no way that Seeds of Death is as bad as the Dominators. Come on, Dominators is pish. Space Pirates is apparently the worst story so far, coming just under Celestial Toymaker. This is wrong becuase Space Pirates is actually quite good. Who has the TROTS for Troughton? Let's look at each person's average Troughton score! 1. Ralph 8.0 2. Karl 7.7 3. Andy T 7.1 4. Phil 6.8 5. Matt 6.5 Ralph continues being the most enthusiastic fan! In my defense I rated lots highly, but also lots quite low. Everyone seems to prefer Troughton apart from me. The overall Hub score for Troughton is 7.2 Lets have a few graphs to finish it off! Firstly, the average of all the scores! And lastly, a super confusing graph comparing everyone's scores. |
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Post by blueshift on Sept 30, 2012 10:54:27 GMT
Onto Doc 3! I'm going to do seasons 7 and 8 together because they're shorter
Spearhead from Space -
Doctor Who and the Silurians -
The Ambassadors of Death -
Inferno -
Terror of the Autons -
The Mind of Evil -
The Claws of Axos -
Colony in Space -
The Dæmons -
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