|
|
Post by jasonw on Dec 2, 2012 10:32:10 GMT
Oh, and either Magnus or Drift have to complicit in this Red Alert thing. or both.
Going on James' curveballs so far, it's probs Rodimus...
|
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 9, 2012 8:38:54 GMT
Loved this issue, and really sorry it's the last part of the pre-war story (for now). Chaos Theory and these issues are really James Roberts' greatest work. And ever since I've been a fan of the Arabian Nights I can't get enough of stories within stories (or better yet, stories within stories within stories). I liked how _some_ of the pre-war scenes in these issues were part of Rewind's storytelling sessions, and _some_ of them (such as the Prime/Prowl conversation at the start of the issue) were for the reader's eyes only, and shown to us while the Lost Light folk were taking a break.
What I can't get on board with though, I'm afraid, is the suggestion that Transformers who don't have human faces and human hands are somehow different or mutilated. It's a bit like Magnus smiling, and Rung's eyebrows. To me, the Transformers would have none of these things as standard until they come to Earth and interact with humans. In the old days, when we were shown TFs with human features before coming to Earth, I took it as artistic licence for the human audience's benefit rather than a statement that the story's alien robots really had those features on Cybertron. But it's harder to take that view in MTMTE because it's not just in the art, it's in the script.
Then again, these are a robotic species portrayed as speaking to one another in English when they would probably be communicating by wireless binary and completing the entire storytelling session in about one second, so...
I know, I think too hard about these things. I just have to learn to accept that IDW's TFs are humans in the form of humanoid robots rather than alien robots in whatever form suits the circumstance.
Martin
|
|
|
|
Post by Benn on Dec 9, 2012 9:44:14 GMT
Your premise of them being computers is based on your human experience of how human computers work.
Alien computers may work in different ways, and at some point in the past decided that an empathic approach to life was a better one. Or that those who could communicate empathically and (in the case of faces) wordlessly (or whatever high pitched squeals computers in the past used) had a better chance of surviving whatever pre-historic threats were out there.
Just a thought, anyway... something to consider. I'm not trying to start an argument!
|
|
|
|
Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 9, 2012 10:11:09 GMT
It has also been established that pre-War Cybertron has some level of interaction with the wider galactic community. Humanoid traits might have been absorbed and spread from there becoming the 'norm' over time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 9, 2012 12:54:02 GMT
I'm not trying to start an argument! Why not? Civilised arguments are a good thing. I take your points, and I don't object in principle to TFs communicating through sound or having visual displays of emotion. What I object to is them being identical to those of humans. There are millions of species on Earth, many of them communicating through sound and showing emotions by visual means... but only humans frown with their eyebrows to show annoyance/concentration, and show happiness by turning up the corners of their mouths. Cats show pleasure by purring, dogs by wagging their tails. Gavin says they had contact with other species early on in the IDW universe. But again, unless they all happened to be related to humans, there's no reason why they should be like us. Some could be like dolphins, and there should then be TFs who live in water and show joy by doing flips for fun, just as much as ones that smile. I'm not even sure that human facial expressions four million years ago had developed to mean what they do today. The Transformers of 4,000,000 BC appear to have developed modern-day human civilisation millions of years before it developed on Earth. The only conclusion I can come to, looking at their faces and hands and how their civilisation was organised four million years ago (both in Marvel and, more explicitly in IDW) is that their origins are linked to the human race, possibly through time-travel. Martin |
|
|
|
Post by Benn on Dec 9, 2012 19:17:41 GMT
Could indeed be that we learned our (as you say, slightly unusual) facial/emotional tics from pre-historic Transformer interaction. It's an interesting thought.
And about that 'argument' bit, I will try and clarify that I was feeling a bit tired and put-upon this morning, so was pre-emptivly defensive!
I'd love it if there were Transformers who'd spent all thier time splashing about in the water to communicate. There are myriad races in the universe, and there should be TF's that know how to talk to them, no matter how they do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 9, 2012 19:34:54 GMT
Could indeed be that we learned our (as you say, slightly unusual) facial/emotional tics from pre-historic Transformer interaction. Yeah. Unlikely that we learnt to have hands with four fingers and an opposable thumb from them though. Or to have two eyes facing forwards above a nose and a mouth. I don't even know why TFs have heads if it's not because they're not copying us. They can see and speak just fine without them when in vehicle mode. If I was a robot I'd want optic sensors right around and on top of my head/body to give me a full field of vision. Four legs and two arms would be quite nice, like a centaur but with gripping hands on all six limbs. Hmmm, maybe we should have an "if you were a robot how would you adapt your body?" thread.  Martin |
|
|
|
Post by legios on Dec 11, 2012 20:44:54 GMT
I know where you are coming from Martin. On the one hand I am not too fussed about the idea of the Transformers having a caste system based on the design features of one of their modes - after all it is no-more arbitrary than some features which have defined caste systems in human history. It does raise the question of why bilateral symmetricallity. Sure, life on Earth is bilaterally symmetrical, but I'd question generalising from that to the assumption that this would somehow be a universal norm. (Especially in a comic where you aren't limited by either needing human actors in funny makeup or muppet creatures to play your various creatures).
That said it did strike me that they seemed to be fracture points in IDW's Cybertronian society on other criteria as well - "Forged or created cold", whatever that might be, the role for which you started your existence equipped forcing you to fit a certain social strata and set of life expectations regardless of your own ambitions... So it may be that it is intended as just another arbitrary distinction amongst many - humanoid appearing Transformers rose to the top of the pile and set the social rules to reward those that looked like them and penalise those who deviated from this artificial norm. Or I may be reading far too much into it.
I would love to see more non-humanoid Transformers, and a bit of an exploration of what it means to be from a sentient machine civilisation rather than one of short-lived, fragile organics. That said, this is not something I ever really expect to get from official Transformers media.
Karl
|
|
|
|
Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 12, 2012 13:01:41 GMT
Not all (multicellular) life on Earth is bilaterally symmetric, even amongst the animal species....
Assuming the humanoid TF's are the dominant and rule making caste of Cybertronian life in the IDW universe it makes sense given the dictatorships we have seen them instigating and running that they would self-reinforce their own particular ideal.
But so far all we can really say is it was humanoid Cybertronian life that appears to have devastated the planet (or at least its surface) during the War.
And as we are seeing in RiD the planet seems to be reasserting itself. Who knows where IDW have planned for that to go to?
|
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Dec 15, 2012 20:07:12 GMT
I'm an issue behind, due to getting them digitally when they drop to 1.49.
Still enjoying the book, and the flashback to old Cybertron is highly enjoyable, and I do so love that James is taking advantage of them being robots to add colour to their history in such minor (to the plot) but rich ways, with them trading bodies and what can happen as a result.
As Karl said a bit upthread some more non-humanoid TF's would be very welcome.
Andy
|
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Dec 19, 2012 22:45:51 GMT
Damn the latest issues are fantastic.
Andy
|
|
|
|
Post by KnightBeat on Dec 20, 2012 22:11:13 GMT
No sign of it in Orbital or FPL yesterday :-(
|
|
Jim
Thunderjet
Micromaster Backside Monitor
Now in glorious Ultra HD 4K
Posts: 4,923
Member is Online
|
Post by Jim on Dec 21, 2012 0:33:42 GMT
It's delayed in the UK, Roberts mentioned this on Twitter t'other day. I Comixologied it and read it this morning on the tube - absolutely brilliant. Very happy to have got a whole year of such a great comic and may there be many more to come.
|
|
|
|
Post by legios on Dec 21, 2012 20:28:47 GMT
I too have this issue from Comixology - read it yesterday evening whilst curled up on the sofa with a cup of peppermint tea to hand. Great issue, with some more of the "something to get your teeth into" character interaction that this series does so well.
Karl
|
|
|
|
Post by Jaymz on Dec 22, 2012 0:48:46 GMT
It's delayed in the UK, Roberts mentioned this on Twitter t'other day. Yeah, shipping port strike in the US meant the book didn't make it to the Diamond UK shipment on time. And with next week being a skip week, we won't see #12 until 2nd Jan at the earliest. It's a great issue though, worth the wait. Lots of Decepticons in it, I like Blip. |
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Dec 30, 2012 13:57:28 GMT
There is much love for the series and James (and Nick and Alex) in the latest episode of House to Astonish.
Andy
|
|
|
|
Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 30, 2012 19:31:56 GMT
House to Astonish?
|
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Dec 30, 2012 21:00:00 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by skillex on Jan 3, 2013 23:01:04 GMT
It's delayed in the UK, Roberts mentioned this on Twitter t'other day. Yeah, shipping port strike in the US meant the book didn't make it to the Diamond UK shipment on time. And with next week being a skip week, we won't see #12 until 2nd Jan at the earliest. It's a great issue though, worth the wait. Lots of Decepticons in it, I like Blip. Did anyone else have any luck getting #12? FPE didn't have it in, yet had Rage of the Dinobots #2 in, which does make me worry that either they or Diamond UK will have ended up skipping MTMTE #12! |
|
|
|
Post by Jaymz on Jan 4, 2013 12:47:16 GMT
Did anyone else have any luck getting #12? FPE didn't have it in, yet had Rage of the Dinobots #2 in, which does make me worry that either they or Diamond UK will have ended up skipping MTMTE #12! Not yet. Diamond UK shipped the incentive cover to shops who qualified, but no regular covers yet. Should get my invoice for next week later in the day, which will hopefully have it. |
|
|
|
Post by skillex on Jan 5, 2013 0:16:55 GMT
Aha! Thanks very much for the update!
|
|
|
|
Post by Jaymz on Jan 5, 2013 14:03:06 GMT
And it's on my invoice, so will hit UK shops on Wed 9th Jan, alongside the new issues of ReGen and RiD.
|
|
Jim
Thunderjet
Micromaster Backside Monitor
Now in glorious Ultra HD 4K
Posts: 4,923
Member is Online
|
Post by Jim on Jan 5, 2013 18:19:35 GMT
It will be like a second Christmas! Now that I'm working in the right area of London I shall be racing there this Wednesday.
|
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jan 11, 2013 21:29:50 GMT
Just got issue #12.
Wow.
Best ever page with zero word count. Possibly the best page James has ever written.
Which I hope he takes as the compliment it is.
Martin
|
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 5, 2013 17:32:18 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 12:56:36 GMT
Yesterday I bought the Robocop trilogy because it was cheap, and I had a morbid fascination to see Robocop 2 again. Now I'm about half-way through and I have the suspicion that James Roberts has a soft spot for this film? (I'm talking Robocop 2 specifically)
Shadowplay was performed on Robocop when OCP tried to humanise him (because the city only saw him as a device that meets out cruel justice). When Cain is captured what happens to him seems very reminiscent of Lobe and co. performing the Empurata on Shockwave. Even seeing Caine's scooped out head the final panel in Shadowplay almost copies the angle exactly with Senator Shockwave's old head casing.
Replacing 'Nuke' for 'Syk', the whole cop story in general with Pax being a sort of Robocop (may that's reaching too far)...
Also there's lots of disgusting (and yet somehow tongue-in-cheek) violence that makes me think Roche is a fan too, by which I'm referring to scenes in Last Stand of the Wreckers; the headless Autobot in the prison cell with the Autobot badge stuff in his mouth etc.
Robocop 2 is absolutely bonkers, it's almost like Police Squad in its style, the way that it's shot it could almost have been made in the 70's.
[Edit] I also think that everyrone involved in making Robocop 2 were simply having a whale of a time, what with all the ham-acting, crazy names (OCP lawyer Shyster, State Attourney Sphincter) and nutty script set pieces. MTMTE looks like it was also written with a lot of fun involved, and knowing nods to various media.
|
|
|
|
Post by blueshift on Feb 10, 2013 15:39:45 GMT
Robocop 2 is absolutely bonkers, it's almost like Police Squad in its style, the way that it's shot it could almost have been made in the 70's. [Edit] I also think that everyrone involved in making Robocop 2 were simply having a whale of a time, what with all the ham-acting, crazy names (OCP lawyer Shyster, State Attourney Sphincter) and nutty script set pieces. MTMTE looks like it was also written with a lot of fun involved, and knowing nods to various media. Robocop 2 could have been a good film, but it felt like there were about three films trying to coexist. It needed a good 40 mins hacked out of the start. |
|
Rich
Protoform
Posts: 880
|
Post by Rich on Feb 10, 2013 20:11:58 GMT
Number 13 is utterly brilliant. Possibly my favourite TF comic ever.
|
|
|
|
Post by legios on Feb 12, 2013 21:14:08 GMT
It is a lot of fun. After the flashback shenanigans and the world-building, we get an issue which really does some fantastic character-building. The thing I really like about MTME is just sitting back and watching the characters spark off each other and this issue delivers that really well. Some great revelations about certain characters too, and a really good holo-matter avatar-related joke.
Karl
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 21:14:02 GMT
How come Ratchet is so happy to stencil a fib on Tailgate's forearm? If so then he played dumb very well in the opening issue, expressing shock at Tailgate's age. If its simply further lying by Tailgate then why is he bringing Ratchet into it? He could've told Cyclonus he simply applied the writing himself.
What's the relevance of Rung's serial number?
Why did Skids have the tattoo on his face four million years ago?
Oh, and Tailgate's panic attacks. There's something else going on here. I'm starting to wonder if the 'Grade four sluicer' isn't another cover story. When he had his first attack it was almost as if he wasn't seeing Whirl's body on the floor, but it sparked off a memory of someone else's.
Also, I wonder if Ratchet knows about Overlord. Just before the Lost Light takes off from Cybertron, Drift mentions to Rodimus that Ratchet wants to talk to him about bringing a weapon of mass destruction on board. We're supposed to think he's referring to Whirl.
[Another edit] Rung seems to have an amazing internal system. Ratchet's old hands would freeze up, yet he's astonished by how well preserved Rung is. Shouldn't Rung be old and creaky? Why isn't Ratchet keen to know his secret? I mean, he instantly refers to Tailgate being an antique and describes him as all 'pulleys and levers'. If we're to believe Rung is a similar age then... someone's fibbing here.
[Edit 27] And Tailgate's interest in the 1984 robots might suggest he knows more about them. At the end of 'Death of Optimus Prime', Prowl & co. receive a transmission from the future, some of the characters on the Lost Light (and I'll go for Rung and Tailgate) could be future travellers with good stories to get them on board. Possibly they're even members of the Knights of Cybertron with notions of keeping the Lost Light crew from ever finding them? Is it why Rung has the brightest spark?
Why does Rewind get Shock & Ore's names mixed up?
|
|
