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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 30, 2013 14:00:52 GMT
I think we need to discuss the seemingly relentless moves towards Scottish independence. Having Scottish blood in me, and being a firm believer in the Union, I don't want Scotland to decome independent, I think we're stronger together. What do folkes think about this? There certainly seems to be a drive towards it.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 30, 2013 18:20:49 GMT
Don't want it.
The end.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jan 30, 2013 18:41:04 GMT
Staunchly against it.
Andy
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jan 30, 2013 18:46:43 GMT
I'd rather it stayed, though part of me yearns for an Earth without any nation states, borders or armies, so I'm not sure that makes me a whole-hearted supporter of the United Kingdom either.
Martin
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 30, 2013 19:25:26 GMT
Martin, that's a beautiful vision.
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on Jan 30, 2013 22:01:00 GMT
I don't know. On the one hand, Westminster fluctuating between apathy and outright hostility towards Scotland and Glasgow in particular is well documented. On the other, we share a huge amount of our infrastructure as a part of the UK and the cost for replacing that will fall suddenly on our shoulders if we separate.
Westminster moved the marine boundaries in 1999, securing a lot of North Sea oil drilling sites that used to be in Scotland's jurisdiction so we'll lose out there as well. In fact the whole oil revenue who-lied-about-what-who's-lying-now shooting match just plain baffles me and I don't know who to believe.
-Nick
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 30, 2013 23:16:38 GMT
I enjoyed today's news on the Electoral Commissions report into the SNP's proposed question for the referendum. Basically they said it was bollocks and unfair in contrast to the SNP saying it was fair and clear. Somehow the SNP are still claiming the EC thought it was fair and clear but they are happy to go along with the EC's proposed alternative anyway. What a bunch of jokers.
And also according to recent surveys support for Scottish Independence is at its lowest point for years. And the SNP still want to waste time and money forcing an unpopular and untimely referendum on the country. Fools.
The current Tory administration at Westminster may not have Scotland in its priorities, but the SNP don't either. They only have their own vision of Scotland as their priority and sadly it is not the one that most Scots and Scottish residents want.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jan 31, 2013 0:19:38 GMT
I don't know. On the one hand, Westminster fluctuating between apathy and outright hostility towards Scotland and Glasgow in particular is well documented. On the other, we share a huge amount of our infrastructure as a part of the UK and the cost for replacing that will fall suddenly on our shoulders if we separate. Westminster moved the marine boundaries in 1999, securing a lot of North Sea oil drilling sites that used to be in Scotland's jurisdiction so we'll lose out there as well. In fact the whole oil revenue who-lied-about-what-who's-lying-now shooting match just plain baffles me and I don't know who to believe. -Nick The reserves are there, but it's too expensive to get out. It's why most of the large companies will be decomissioning more and more platforms. In itself it's own wee industry, and will preserve jobs for a while. The thing is, we shouldn't be looking to exploit this anyway, we need to be moving away from oil into other energy sources. Andy |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 5, 2013 17:54:49 GMT
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 5, 2013 17:59:04 GMT
I have no respect for that man at all, as he wilfully leads the Scottish people astray with half truths and bluster. The fact he's still in power, is an indictment of how ineffective the opposition is.
Andy
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 5, 2013 18:55:53 GMT
Or an indictment of how those who want independence (as with all single issue political movements) have considerably higher turn-outs at the ballot box in elections than those who prefer the status quo. I suspect that if everyone turned out and voted for their least worst party, the SNP would not be in power.
Hopefully the voting will better match public opinion in the referendum itself.
Martin
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 5, 2013 18:59:24 GMT
True, but there is a dearth of credible alternatives to First Minister in Scotland at the moment. No real heavyweights are there, and there have been repeated opportunities where a really credible opposition leader coud have destroyed Salmond.
Mind you the same is true in Westminster at the moment.
Andy
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Feb 5, 2013 19:43:57 GMT
Unfortunately the SNP have only been in a position of power to force a referendum through not due to anything good about themselves or their leadership, but because of a lack of strong opposition both here and in London.
I honestly can't see independence being voted for at the end of the day, but as Martin points out single issue votes often get high turn outs in favour of them...
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Post by legios on Feb 5, 2013 21:16:30 GMT
The thing that is starting to irritate me about the independence campaign is that the way the Scottish Government is putting it in every press release they make, regardless of what it is about. Everything I have seen out of them ends with either "but in an Independent Scotland we would have the resources to do something about this" or "this is something very good we have done but with the levers and powers of independence we could do it even more betterer" (paraphrasing of course, we don't get press-releases this cool :-) )
It irritates me because it feels like the entire business of government is being subordinated to this single issue, and I want my government to busy itself with the business of taking care of its entire intray, not using it all as pieces in a game.
I do recall that the first election the SNP formed a government someone I know was quite annoyed with that outcome. When I asked who they voted for they were quick to point out that it was a protest vote against Labour, not for the SNP. Morbo pointed out that elections do not work like that....
Karl
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 6, 2013 6:52:24 GMT
I do recall that the first election the SNP formed a government someone I know was quite annoyed with that outcome. When I asked who they voted for they were quick to point out that it was a protest vote against Labour, not for the SNP. Morbo pointed out that elections do not work like that.... Er... no indeed. If you want to protest against someone, pick up a placard or write to The Times. Elections are for deciding who gets to set the political agenda until the next election. Either you vote in the party you mind being in charge the least, or you don't vote, which is in effect handing over your vote to be shared out between everyone who does choose to exercise their right to vote (which includes nationalists and Daily Mail readers). Martin |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 15:42:58 GMT
I don't think that it will happen, coz it keeps on getting stonewalled by the bleedin government plus David Cameron wants control of the WHOLE of the UK not just England, so he can fashion it to his design, in which he cannot successfully succeed in doing if Scotland eventually cuts itself off from the rest of the country.
personally i'd like independence, but Cameron has other plans
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Feb 20, 2013 18:51:34 GMT
Of course he has other plans, he is Prime Minister of the UK which currently includes Scotland. Nothing sinister there.
Personally I don't want independence, but the SNP have other plans.
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 23, 2013 9:20:00 GMT
So the date for The Vote has been set. I find myself entirely indifferent. I hope Scotland stays part of the UK but if doesn't I expect to wake up the next day to find nothing at all has changed other than Alex Salmond planning statues of himself now he finally has UNLIMITED POWAH. And possibly some difficulties getting to the office that day (very close to Holyrood).
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Mar 24, 2013 11:54:13 GMT
But Ralph, surely you can't doubt that Scotland will be transformed into a paradise state free of incompetent running by an out of touch goverment that only chases its own minority agenda? If not surely the Great Second Oil Boom nobody else believes in will carry this country through??
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 24, 2013 17:29:35 GMT
It will just be: Same Shit Different Day.
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Nov 26, 2013 12:09:55 GMT
So after over two hours of trying to download the SNP's, sorry.. Scottish Government's new White Paper on Independence without the connection timing out or it crashing my computer it finally downloads only to refuse to open due to a file corruption. Prophetic or pathetic??  I did enjoy the irony of the announcement being held at the Science Centre though. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Nov 26, 2013 12:40:05 GMT
Finally got to (part) of the White paper. As a scientist I am interested in how science funding will work post-Independence as currently Scotland receives a disproportionate amount of government research funding (13% with 8% of the population). Academic talent will go where the funding goes after all or they will have no funding.
In terms of university science funding apparently the SNP want/wish to keep the current arrangements with the UK Research Councils i.e. stay in them (despite not being in the UK any more), give them a similar amount of dosh to now via taxation (as is current) but still expect to get back the disproportionate amount they get currently (through equal competition as part of the UK).
Cake. And Eat it.
Let's hope all those research funding UK charities also line up as fast to continue things as present too. I could then start some local research into cloud cuckoo land then.
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dyrl
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Post by dyrl on Dec 17, 2013 15:09:44 GMT
though part of me yearns for an Earth without any nation states, borders or armies, so I'm not sure that makes me a whole-hearted supporter of the United Kingdom either. Martin As someone who shares Martin's sentiment, while knowing nothing about Scotland, I was curious to see everyone's comments on this. It's intetesting that all over the planet, it is becoming more vital to consider ourselves above all humans, but part of the freedom we have is to group ourselves by language and culture and create independent, self-governing entities. This is why I think the Catholic idea of subsidiarity or the idea of Federalism is appealing on a global scale - local autonomy in local matters, unity in global matters. Too bad the two are so intertwined these days that it's rather hard to balance them. |
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 25, 2014 18:12:15 GMT
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Post by blueshift on Mar 25, 2014 18:16:57 GMT
I thought that Muppets, like the queen, should stay apolitical |
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 9, 2014 9:14:03 GMT
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on May 9, 2014 9:34:19 GMT
Sorry! We're doing our best!
-Nick
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Post by Fortmax2020 on May 9, 2014 9:41:11 GMT
Why should he? If Scotland leaves the UK then Conservative influence over rUK will be stronger than ever!
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on May 9, 2014 16:48:21 GMT
On the flip side of that, Scottish Labour MPs are legendarily disengaged (since most of what they do has no impact on the people they "represent") and tend to be relied upon to carry the party whip and vote with the party leadership regardless of whether or not it's a good idea.
Also, voter turnout has been declining for decades and is now around 50%. Apathy is a bigger decider on election day than campaigning, so the loss of so many "safe seats" might mobilise the base. Might.
-Nick
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Post by The Doctor on May 17, 2014 12:52:36 GMT
Cinemas now play two long campaign videos before the ads prior to a film. One for the yes campaign, one for the no. Both are excruciating to watch, being highly patronising, manipulative and dirge-like. Not going to convince anyone.
Been dismayed in general by both camps as they gear up. Too much emphasis on negativity and what BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN IF YOU VOTE THE WRONG WAY RARARARARARARGGHHH.
I have moved from a 'no' vote to a 'on the fence' position to complete apathy by this point. I just can't find a reason to care about it as life will probably just go on as before whichever way it goes anyway. I should vote because folk have fought in wars for that right but at the moment I just don't care. Is that a bad thing?
I did put in my postal vote for the Euro elections as I can at least see how that could make a difference and anything to keep the percentages down for the far-right racist parties!
-Ralph
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