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Post by Fortmax2020 on Sept 18, 2014 13:23:09 GMT
I think count offices start reporting in from 1am-ish, with the bulk of results coming in between 3-6am and a final result expected to be announced between 6.30am and 7.30am.
As I've got an early start for work in the morning I shan't be staying up to watch the proceedings. What will be will be now. Hopefully we'll have a result in by the time my train gets to Edinburgh. Funny to think I could board it in Glasgow in the UK and by the time it gets to Edinburgh an hour later it may no longer be in the UK.
Karl - yes, Kates and Williams second. Apparently it went:
Scotland: We're off.
rUK: Don't go!!
Scotland: But I must!
rUK: But... but...
Scotland: My country needs me!
rUK: But... I'm pregnant.
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Post by legios on Sept 18, 2014 16:20:47 GMT
Actually, you will still be in the UK. If the decision is to secede it won't take effect immediately. There have to be discussions and negotiations. I believe that Khan Salmond has declared that these would be concluded to the satisfaction of the UK Government and the secessionist part of the nation by some date I do not recall in June 2015. So whatever happens this will still be UK territory until then.
Karl
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Sept 18, 2014 17:20:16 GMT
He thinks everything will be sorted in 18 months. Conviniently in time for some anniversary he deems important.
He forgets that rUK will have a general election midway through this period...
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on Sept 18, 2014 17:31:26 GMT
Alas, I don't have a vote either. I would have voted yes, to separate us from the callousness verging on sadism of Westminster and to reject the ownership of nuclear weapons- following in the footsteps of Ukraine and South Africa. Still, makes no odds now.
With 97% registration and turnout expected to be 80+% we can definitely say the country has spoken, whatever the result. Spirits have been high and hackles have been raised over the past couple of weeks, but so far I haven't heard about any serious outbreaks of violence. It seems that despite our reputation the Scots have approached the event with a distinct level of maturity. Yay.
Whatever happens, as an Italian friend said to me this afternoon, "Cameron's arse will be knitting socks tonight". Yes or no, we'll always have that.
-Nick
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Sept 18, 2014 17:52:30 GMT
I would have voted yes, to separate us from the callousness verging on sadism of Westminster and to reject the ownership of nuclear weapons Scotland separating itself from the callousness of Westminster basically amounts to the richer non-Tory part of the UK abandoning the poorer non-Tory part of the UK to more Tory governments, which is why I'm praying for no. Also, given the permanence of a yes vote and the way the opinion poll sways back and forth from day to day, it seems arbitrary to me to determine independence on a simple majority on a single day. I would prefer such a decision to be made on a clearly settled demonstration of the people's will over a period of time - i.e. following a period when the majority of polls show support for a yes - or with a 60% threshold required to go independent. What if yes wins by a few votes and then the opinion polls swing back to a clear no during the next year and a half of negotiations? As far as I can tell there's no provision for Scotland changing its mind between now and 2016, however things change during that time. Worrying. Martin |
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Post by Bogatan on Sept 18, 2014 18:10:35 GMT
That struck me too, a 50.001% yes victory hardly seems like a sound basis for this kind of upheaval.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Sept 18, 2014 21:30:13 GMT
I think a higher thresehold should have been set but it would only have been met with cries of outrage by the Nationalists up here.
I've never 'got' the nuclear weapons argument as a reason to vote yes. I wish we didn't have then but by removing them from Scotland we don't actually rid the world of them and instead just lose any say we have over them which might actually help us get properly rid of them one day.
Same with the welfare/social justice thing. A Yes vote just throws the majority of the current UK population to the tender mercies of the Conservatives for the sake of a minority in Scotland who are supporting the SNP. And lets remember they are a party that follows the wind. It wasn't so long ago they were Tory chums up here until they started courting Labour voters topush their goal of Indepedence at any cost.
Polls now closed. Not long until we know now.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 18, 2014 21:34:48 GMT
Cast my vote.
It was of course a No vote.
Fingers crossed that some sense prevails.
Andy
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on Sept 19, 2014 0:41:05 GMT
According to reports from counts across the country, the No campaign has already started celebrating. It's looking bleak for the SNP, which looks like good news for everyone here.
Hopefully the fallout from last week's panicked series of promises from Westminster will lead to some decentralisation of power across all of Britain. Maybe it won't all have been for nothing after all?
-Nick
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Post by Toph on Sept 19, 2014 2:20:21 GMT
Maybe if Scotland, Wales, England, and Northern Ireland would all be happier if each one was run a bit more state-like?
Each country gets a level of it's own autonomy, with the benefits of unity?
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Sept 19, 2014 6:06:32 GMT
Whew, thank God for that. Scotland should be proud of its almighty turnout, which I hope sets an example to turn the tide of apathy in future elections, starting from next year. Now let's work together to make the whole UK work better. Hopefully the fallout from last week's panicked series of promises from Westminster will lead to some decentralisation of power across all of Britain. Agreed. The devolved administrations are far from being the most disenfranchised parts of the United Kingdom. Martin |
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Post by legios on Sept 19, 2014 6:14:59 GMT
Just had a look at the situation whilst waiting for my kettle to boil for my morning coffee. It looks like the result was neither what I expected, or my parents were expecting. Although, for a variety of reasons, mine was a no vote I expected the Yes vote to take it. My parents were leaning towards it being a no, but only by a small margin. I don't think either of us expected such a large margin in the final result.
Here's hoping that the whole experience brings about a bit of a shift in UK political thinking though. A bit of decentralisation would do us all some good I think - not just for Scotland and Wales but perhaps even for the North of England, Cornwall and the like?
Also, I hope that both sides can put away their differences after quite a bitter war of words and work out a way to take this forward positively.
EDIT (because Martin reminded me about turnout) that was one thing that was really nice to see. I went to my polling station and for the first poll I can remember there were other voters present when I arrived and other folk arriving when I left. Usually I am the only punter there when I go to vote. My Yoga teacher also said that there was a queue at his polling station (which is in my ward). I have never seen folk this engaged with a political issue since I started voting. It was very gratifying to see. Now, if we can only keep these people involved come the next general election the results could be fascinating).
Karl
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Sept 19, 2014 6:24:18 GMT
Agreed.
The margin certainly larger than I expected. The turnout incredible.
Disappointed that parts of the Yes campaign are already making political threats about their doubts on the delivery of further devolution. Hardly unifying words, nor was Alex Salmond's speech earlier.
We have a lot of rebuilding to do here as well as a wave of political engagement that we need to maintain into the General Election next year.
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Cullen
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Post by Cullen on Sept 19, 2014 6:40:15 GMT
Welldone Scotland!
I hope what ever devolution comes to England as a result of this isn't just a rehash of the regional assemblies. People might have forgotten that the North East rejected its own assembly in 2004 (77% voted no including me), which would have had no power to change anything of importance. We'll need to see something more substantial.
Anyway, scotch eggs all round?
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on Sept 19, 2014 8:37:13 GMT
Looks like.
However!
-Nick
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 19, 2014 9:09:42 GMT
Picture of a broken man at bbc.co.uk
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 19, 2014 15:14:19 GMT
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Post by legios on Sept 19, 2014 15:59:28 GMT
I'm not entirely surprised at the decision. He had staked so much of his personal political capital on this vote that I can see how stepping down would be on his mind given the result.
Karl
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 19, 2014 16:12:47 GMT
I certainly got the feeling he was more interested in a separate Scotland than actually running Scotland by some distance.
From what I read elsewhere the feeling is that the SNP are a broken flush politically without him.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 19, 2014 17:51:34 GMT
The thought occurs: If Scotland needs a new First Minister maybe it's time for this forum favourite to make a comeback and put his face in the frame.... |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 19, 2014 18:00:05 GMT
DON'T CALL IT A COMEBACK, I'VE BEEN HERE FOR YEARS!
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 19, 2014 19:15:27 GMT
Well I'm over the moon Scotland voted No. Although it was bloody close, wasn't it? I call that close anyway. We're stronger together at the end of the day. So, good result. But hopefully those who voted Yes will get something out of it.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Sept 19, 2014 20:02:04 GMT
According to some loud, slightly tipsy and poshly dressed Yes supporters on my train home tonight the No folk have no 'right' to gather and celebrate as they have nothing to celebrate. This then led on to a conversation in the group about how there "must be" nice No people out there somewhere that they could get along with.
This discussion was held to the tinny beat of music from one of their phones.
Sigh.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 19, 2014 20:38:53 GMT
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on Sept 20, 2014 10:35:05 GMT
I gather it got a bit lively in Glasgow city centre last night. Certain members of the knuckle-dragging fraternity were apparently confused about which side we were on in World War 2 while their opponents seem to have brought Irish flags by mistake. It's been a while since the last Old Firm game, so maybe they just had to get it out of their system. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29287409Where were all those camera crews during the bedroom tax protests, eh? George Square was packed to the non-existent rafters then. Less chance of some exciting violence happening I suppose. -Nick |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 20, 2014 11:23:39 GMT
The "selective coverage" of demonstrations during this government has been shocking. Especially the non publicity of the Save the NHS stuff
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 28, 2014 15:36:44 GMT
It's a problem when the BBC is frightened of angering the Tories, and manages to have several former Tories in positions of authority within the BBC trust.
Andy
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 28, 2014 15:38:59 GMT
I think we've seen just how frightened they, and other media outlets are, by a lack of coverage of many major protests during the current government's reign. It's only when it gets nasty it makes the news.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 28, 2014 15:41:00 GMT
Yes it is.
The disproportionate coverage given to Ukip also angers me. Given they do not have any sitting MP's and the Green Party does, why are they not getting the same level of coverage?
Andy
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Sept 28, 2014 17:37:22 GMT
Folk who lean to the right think the BBC has a left-wing bias. I consider it to be fairly well balanced - more than any other media outlet I know of. There are good answers to the criticisms raised here, just as there are to those raised by the other side. The BBC isn't there to give satisfaction to any particular viewpoint - that's what newspapers are for, where you buy the one that agrees with you on stuff and scorn the one that takes the opposite view.
If the BBC gave coverage that promoted the messages I would like to have promoted, and pooh-poohed those that I disdain, I would know it had gone astray.
Martin
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