|
|
Post by The Doctor on Mar 31, 2014 15:38:49 GMT
E Prime (any version) does not photograph well but is tremendously fun to play with.
-Ralph
|
|
|
|
Post by blueshift on Mar 31, 2014 15:47:14 GMT
I honestly didn't like him at all. I thought there was a lot of potential with the little limb things but they were just so boring. The drill was ok, the others didn't do anything. And the trailer was a waste of space. There's so much they could have done with it!
|
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Mar 31, 2014 16:15:16 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Mar 31, 2014 16:43:52 GMT
I'd be more predisposed towards this toy/character if it wasn't called Grimlock, but I can see no connection in that robot mode to what Grimlock has looked like for the past 30 years. It seems to be another case of random name re-assignment, an annoyance that has plagued the various movie lines.
If it was called Dave Bot I could look at it more kindly!
-Ralph
|
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 31, 2014 18:03:17 GMT
I quite like it, the dino mode is giving off a TM2 Dinobot mode.
Just catching up on the thread, I love the Protoform Prime in G1 colours, the paint applications on the head put me in mind of Star Convoy. Love the Evasion Prime looks like a fun toy, which is something a lot of the Movie lines haven't been.
Andy
|
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Mar 31, 2014 18:07:42 GMT
But it doesn't look anything like Grimlock!!!
-Ralph
|
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 31, 2014 18:14:08 GMT
Would this make you love him?  Andy |
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Mar 31, 2014 18:28:32 GMT
But it doesn't look anything like Grimlock!!! -Ralph Neither does movie bee look anything like bumblebee. Or Ironhide look anything like Ironhide. At least like with Ratchet, they got the alt mode (mostly) right, for character. |
|
kayevcee
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
The Weather Wizard
Posts: 5,527
|
Post by kayevcee on Mar 31, 2014 18:29:33 GMT
Glorious.
-Nick
|
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Mar 31, 2014 19:07:59 GMT
I'm far from blown away by anything I've seen so far. Maybe they'll be better in the flesh.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pinwig on Mar 31, 2014 19:20:43 GMT
I wouldn't bank on it...
|
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Mar 31, 2014 19:25:31 GMT
No, I'm not holding my breath.
|
|
|
|
Post by Llama God on Mar 31, 2014 20:56:44 GMT
Would this make you love him? ... Oh gods yes, I'll take two. |
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Mar 31, 2014 21:31:44 GMT
No, because he bears no resemblance to Grimlock.
-Ralph
|
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Mar 31, 2014 22:45:53 GMT
Proper T. Rex. All that matters.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Apr 1, 2014 15:27:07 GMT
If that's a T-Rex, I am a banana.
-Ralph
|
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 1, 2014 15:53:38 GMT
It's the way you can see the robot bits through the dino mode and the dino panels don't seem to join up together. I'm hoping it's a bad TF from the reviewer
|
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Apr 1, 2014 17:21:41 GMT
If that's a T-Rex, I am a banana. -Ralph It's no BW10th Megatron, but it's a hell of a lot better a t. Rex than MP, or foc. Those can't even be called dinosaurs. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 21:42:24 GMT
[rant]
So far, every TF4 toy I have seen has filled me with disgust. Grimlock is not Grimlock but some other random monster-former that mugged the real Grimlock for his name and 'E-Prime' (even that shorthand 'down-with-the-cool-kids' nickname grates) is literally a bastard: What audience is it aiming for? The movie fans will think it's a pump alt mode, the G1 fans will hate that something so sacred has been desecrated. Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful that the films raised the profile of Transformers and opened the doors to new life for those wonderful little pieces of plastic, but for the love of life, leave my nostalgia the f*** alone.
Obviously, as everyone's saying, there's a real chance that having it in hand would make all the difference (it did for me with the Star Wars crossovers). But up until now I feel that Hasbro has done well to re-imagine G1 characters with a degree of respect. There are recognisable elements (Bludgeon's samurai appearance for example) but never an outright rip-off that's then tied into the movie franchise. I loved the little nods in the first film to G1 - the yellow Bug in the car lot made me grin from ear to ear - but those moments diminished. Generations offered me what I wanted: Modern takes on classic characters that are separate from the movie franchise. By blurring the line with E-Prime (the vein in my head became visible as I typed that), they're encroaching on something I really think they should treat as a separate entity.
[/rant]
*DISCLAIMER: I've had more than my regular dose of Dr Daniels so the coherency of the above post may be less than optimum.
|
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Apr 1, 2014 22:56:54 GMT
E-Prime refers to Energon Optimus Prime. www.tfu.info/2004/Autobot/OptimusPrime/optimusprime.htmThe super class figure from the Energon toyline. No movie toys. On a different note, I don't see how any movie toy ruins anyone's nostalgia. I've collected and followed TFs religiously since '84. I pretty much despise the movies as utter garbage. There's very little i can find good in them. But I've never once felt it, or any design in them has desecrated anything from my childhood. This is a mindset so many fans have that is completely alien to me. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 6:15:38 GMT
Well I definitely dropped the ball with the E-Prime thing, such was my haste to spit grievance. After a good night's sleep I do feel a little silly. I think the main point I wanted to make is that Hasbro are, in effect, slaves to two masters. They need to remain competitive and current but also pander to long term fans. For the most part, they achieve this. I find new versions of G1 characters fascinating but it annoys me when they just use an old name on a toy that has nothing in common with that name. It blurs the line between the old and the new.
Imagine hearing a terrible cover of your favourite song. Sometimes covers are respectfully done with the artist putting their own twist on it (BBC Live Lounge). Sometimes a song is just outright ripped off (Guetta) or trashed (All Saints 'Under The Bridge' springs to mind). The movie Primes, of which I have several, are the former: a re-imagining of the character. The Evasion Prime is the latter: A classic, plagiarised for the cool kids.
|
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Apr 2, 2014 7:56:22 GMT
Maybe because i dont really care for music much, that comparison is lost on me. I *think* I understand what you're getting at? Maybe? But I'm not sure.
Meat Loaf did a celine dion song I love (It's all coming back to me now), and I pretty much hate his version, despite liking most of Meat's stuff. So I just skip it. But I don't feel like I enjoy the original any less, because Meat's version exists.
I just don't feel like the movie does anything horrible to anything that came before. The horrible effect kicks in on all things that come after it, like IDW forcing a movie style into all their updated G1 designs (as they did between AHM and MTMTE) And Aligned/Prime being a watered down movieverse.
If anything, i feel the desecration comes from future G1 Optimus designs having that split chest, and future G1 Bumblebees now being musclecars, and other similar things. Which is what I fear will happen if they ever do another voyager G1 Optimus.
But yeah... Personally, evasion prime, I feel doesn't do anything negative on things that I like. If anything it's kind of nice to have a change from the same boring design for the last seven year.
It's not trying to be a new version of G1 Prime. It's trying to be a new version of movie prime, to freshen it up in a way that fas long term and new could appreciate.
It's not any more disrespectful to G1 than Animated Optimus.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 8:26:13 GMT
I think you've definitely grasped my angle. I don't share your viewpoint but I think that comes from different experiences. For myself, I had G1 up to Action Masters and Micromasters, a large gap, then the movie lines. There is a very clear divide in my mind so it's easy for me to separate the two and my own need for structure demands I do so. Conversely, I think you have much broader experience and have seen one iteration evolve into another? It's interesting that you mention Animated Optimus. I recall shuddering the very first time I saw the 'Transformers Animated' logo: "Transformers Animated? WTF? Transformers was animated first! that Mr Bay should be calling his films, 'Transfomers Live Action'!" With time, I got past this but I've still never had any interest in the series or lines.
But back on topic... I was grateful for all the peripheral toys that appeared with each film release. With Hasbro's new 'make them simple, stupid' philosophy, I'm worried that some cherished classics will now get released in this dumbed-down format.
|
|
Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 6,121
|
Post by Stomski on Apr 2, 2014 9:16:27 GMT
I think the point is, that when a cover of a music track is done purely for commercial reasons and with significant backing/advertising from the record label, people stop identifying with the original that had more integrity*.
* In the context of Transformers though, it's difficult to define integrity, seeing as the 80s were driven purely by $$$ too... Although there are some (Furman?) who were genuinely developing the stories etc. along with their paycheck.
It is possible that through the exposure the cover is given, more people are exposed to the original... But at what cost man?? AT WHAT COST???!!!?!?!?!!
General appearance though does not bother me, it's the characters behind them that I identify more with the name, and hence why Prime taking people's faces is a little worrysome. Alt modes are a different matter though, people identify a certain character from a alt mode, so tieing Bee in with being a musclecar aesthetic will ultimately lead to a change of character.
Sticking to rigid characters though based on names can mean that subsequent reimaginings turn name-reuses into cliches and that's certainly not what we want, something that can be avoided with good writing or the use of characters/interactions that we don't see very often.
edit: The other issue is to do with dilution of character identity. Having certain visual traits consistent across toylines aids character recognition, especially with children.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pinwig on Apr 2, 2014 21:48:10 GMT
Bumblebee got skewed by Armada Hot Shot in my opinion. When Armada came round they basically rebooted Bumblebee into Hot Shot to make him more kid friendly (more dynamic name, sportier, cooler car), then it was really that character who went into the films but regained the Bumblebee name because it's more universally recognisable. The change was the removal of the voice to make him the 'cute' character.
I think that's also why Hasbro think the next cartoon will work with Bee as a figurehead; Armada's main character was arguably Hot Shot at the start. Bumblebee now is just an amalgam of all these things.
|
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Apr 2, 2014 22:42:34 GMT
Actually, Hotshot was more of an allegory for G1 Hotrod (who was also the kid friendly character) more than anything else. Down to Hotshot's usual repaints being Hotrod homages.
He really had nothing in common with 'bee, outside of being yellow, and the character that kids are intended to latch on to. Just about everything about Hotshot seemed to be a combination of Hotrod and Cheetor.
I do agree though, that Movie and Prime 'bee are basically just Hotshot with Bumblebee's name, and that the concept of the two has been merged, with Bumblebee losing out.
Badass warrior who's bigger than most and can easily kill a decepticon with his bare hands is the polar opposite of what Bumblebee was all about, and why kids identified so strongly with him.
|
|
Jim
Thunderjet
Micromaster Backside Monitor
Now in glorious Ultra HD 4K
Posts: 4,932
|
Post by Jim on Apr 2, 2014 23:09:58 GMT
I think he sits somewhere between Bumblebee and Hot Rod - for Armada he was originally going to be called Bumblebee but Hasbro couldn't use the name at that point. He certainly shared many personality points with Hot Rod, but the latter we only really had for most of the movie before he became a Prime whereas Hotshot, like Bumblebee (and especially Cheetor), was sort of the POV character who stuck around.
I don't like the badass warrior thing, either, I think it speaks to some aspects of modern popular culture's obsession with and excuse of (often nasty) violence. There's a better middle ground to be found between a Prime who allows himself to be killed because he allowed some video game characters to "die" and one who slices the faces off of enemies.
-Jim
|
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Apr 2, 2014 23:22:46 GMT
Not true. We had him from '86-'88.
They dumped Rodimus and brought back Hotrod starting with targetmasters, so they could bring optimus back as powermaster.
And if you go by the cartoon, he constantly jumped between the two. If you go by the comic, rodimus is about as important as random random "buy this toy" guy.
Hotrod stayed in it from Headmasters on through G2. ( granted he was never an important character, like Blaster, Grimlock, or Shockwave, but he stuck around, unlike the other targetmasters and headmasters)
We had more hotrod than Rodimus.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Apr 2, 2014 23:24:14 GMT
...The change was the removal of the voice to make him the 'cute' character. I think this was the big mistake (or one of them) of the Transformers Movies 2 onwards: Bumblebee not being able to speak. It was interesting and alien in the first movie, but after that.... well I think it ruined the character. |
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Apr 2, 2014 23:28:14 GMT
I think he (HotShot) sits somewhere between Bumblebee and Hot Rod.... -Jim I agree with this, with what limited knowledge of Hot Shot that I have. End of the day, Bumblebee does 'Bumblebee' far better than Hot Shot or Hot Rod. |
|
