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Post by Toph on Nov 22, 2015 21:11:45 GMT
I think Guardians of the Galaxy is the peak Marvel film. Literally the best.
Maybe the best comicbook film.
Great adaptation, great characters, great actors, and a great story.
And it proves A-List titles/characters are not required to make a successful movie.
Before this movie, Guardians were obscure, even to hardcore comic fans.
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Post by blueshift on Nov 22, 2015 21:16:11 GMT
I'd agree with that. Pretty much faultless as a film and an adaption. And it doesn't revolve around them fighting hordes of mindless drones.
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 22, 2015 21:31:53 GMT
I only liked the soundtrack and the typeface on the credits. The appeal of the film literally befuddles me completely. Just some crap with a Han Solo KO running around.
Yes I know it is a beloved film. You may now lynch me.
My favourite of the Marvel films is of course the Roger Corman Fantastic Four. Followed by the first Thor. Then The Winter Soldier.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 22, 2015 21:37:51 GMT
Further context: I've sat through just one film on shiny disc this year!
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 22, 2015 21:39:02 GMT
We quite understand that you may not be able to sit through a whole Marvel film in one sitting. Splitting it into chunks is perfectly acceptable.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Nov 22, 2015 21:59:46 GMT
Oh! Guardians. Yes. Brilliant because it's isolated from the others and if that mad Dan Abnett trade is anything to go by, the film version of the guardians team is far better than the comic was.
Iron Man films are essential. Love them. And Cap 2 is just a good action film period. Regardless of its position as a marvel film.
I enjoyed the first cap film far more on a rewatch after seeing Agent Carter, which is superb.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 23, 2015 7:24:58 GMT
Ralph is correct, they are all perfectly watchable in two or three chunks like TV episodes. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is one long story after all.
I'm not a fan of the Marvel films that get all cosmic. 'Guardians of the Galaxy' is probably my least favourite part of the MCU, followed by all the non-Earth-based stuff in the Thor films, which are too dark (literally) for my tastes. But I like Thor and Loki the characters in the Avengers films.
Given where you are currently, Phil, I think 'Iron Man 3' and 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' should be your priority, and they may or may not make you want to go back and watch IM2, Cap 1 and Avengers 1 to fill in a few blanks. Robert Downey Jr's Tony Stark is quite a complex character behind his wise-cracking façade, with considerable evolution over the series. I have a soft spot for IM2, particularly for Sam Rockwell's hilarious Justin "I'd-like-to-point-out-for-the-record-that-that-test-pilot-survived" Hammer, but on repeated re-watching I think IM3 is much stronger, particularly RDJ's bonding with the kid. And 'The Winter Soldier'... just superb.
Martin
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Post by Shockprowl on Nov 23, 2015 13:06:57 GMT
I love Sam Rockwell in IM2 too! Brilliant actor. Yes, I find IM2 very enjoyable. IM3 I felt is a great Tony Stark film, but not as good an Iron Man film, and I was disappointed with the ending, and one or two other elements of it. Winter Soldier is fantastic.
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Post by browny87 on Nov 23, 2015 13:08:41 GMT
Guardians of the galaxy and Ant man are my 2 favourite comic hero films of recent years.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 26, 2015 18:07:50 GMT
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 26, 2015 18:11:28 GMT
Oh dear.
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on Nov 26, 2015 18:19:05 GMT
Looks better than actual Civil War to me! Though I wonder if they'll actually get around the 'superhero registration is actually a good idea and fighting against it makes you look at best whiny and at worst like a gun nut' |
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 26, 2015 18:48:07 GMT
The superhero registration thing is a great idea for a movie. I'm less sure of "I must help my mate the killer so I will fight youuuu." but ech it's still in production. We'll see. Trailers can often mislead. I recently saw the film 'Brooklyn'. Awful trailer which completely mis-sold the film. I thought the film itself was absolutely lovely and a real pleasure to watch.
*throws shield*
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Nov 26, 2015 20:54:37 GMT
I think you have misread the trailer. Cap has to choose a side *because* there is now a registration act which he disagrees with because it views things too black and white.. which places Bucky on the wrong side of it cementing Cap's position.
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Post by Benn on Nov 27, 2015 16:58:27 GMT
Yeah, I haven't read Civil War (much), but giving Cap an emotional connection/reason to go against it makes it initially more interesting to me.
We shall see. I have not seen Age of Ultron yet so I don't know how the players stand at the start of this...
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Post by Toph on Nov 27, 2015 17:52:02 GMT
Well, Cap being against the registration act is one of the rare few things in that wntire story arc that made sense, and stayed true to character (unlike EVERYTHING with Tony).
It's basically an extention of the Mutant Registration Act, and forms a database of particular american citizens based on their differences from the "normal" population, that can lead to all kinds of horrors down the road.
This is the exact kind of thing he fought against in WWII. It's unamerican, and unconstitutional.
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Post by legios on Nov 27, 2015 21:16:17 GMT
Actually, I'd say that I can see how you get to Tony's position in the Comics from places he's been. He's got his own history with worrying about unchecked proliferation - see Armour Wars - and a charmingly naive belief that the solution to all problems is to throw more hard science at them. ( And has gone public with his identity so often that I doubt he can understand how secrecy is an asset if you aren't a rich guy with the firepower of an armoured troop at your disposal. ). So it goes from "there are too many people with too many superpowers. It's like when Stane sold my tech to all and sundry. I have to do something. This is a thing, therefore I must do this," to "See, I'm right. Reed Richards says maths says so! I can't stop now. No matter what it costs me." (Because Tony isn't the guy to see that Reed- a man with abysmal ability to understand and relate to people is not in a position to identify the right variables to put in an equation about how populations of human beings are going to behave...).
How they are going to get Movie Tony, who is basically a rich jackass (a very entertaining Jackass to watch, but nevertheless a rotten human being) who throws technology at problems until they leave him alone, from where he is to there I am uncertain. But there are competent writers involved, so they may well come up with something.
(Caveat, not seen the trailer yet. It is on my "either I'll get around to it or it'll show up in front of a film at some point if I don't get to it" list.
Karl
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Post by Toph on Nov 27, 2015 21:41:59 GMT
It's not supporting the registration act that I feel was out of character for tony.
It's a lot of the downright villainous BS he did around it.
Spiderman was pretty ooc, as well, as a lot of other characters.
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Post by blueshift on Nov 27, 2015 23:38:11 GMT
It's not supporting the registration act that I feel was out of character for tony. It's a lot of the downright villainous BS he did around it. Spiderman was pretty ooc, as well, as a lot of other characters. The main problem was that they never bothered to work out what the registration act actually was. In some books, it said that if you wanted to be a superhero and fight crime then you had to register to be properly trained and accountable. Which is very reasonable as that's how, you know, society works. In other books, at the stroke of midnight of the act coming into force, armed police broke down the door of any unregistered hero with powers, even if they were just sitting in the bath. Meanwhile Tony Stark builds space Gitmo. |
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Post by Toph on Nov 28, 2015 2:33:53 GMT
Aye. Civil War was one massive clusterfuck of horrid writing based on a mildly interesting idea.
IMO, it's the second best example of everything wrong with marvel's writing today.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 28, 2015 7:49:47 GMT
And the other reason(s) are what?
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Post by blueshift on Nov 28, 2015 7:59:13 GMT
Aye. Civil War was one massive clusterfuck of horrid writing based on a mildly interesting idea. IMO, it's the second best example of everything wrong with marvel's writing today. But on the other hand, I think in many ways it was one of the best put together events, in that there was a clear plot in the main book that other books could riff off without being an awkward tie in, and everything was very clearly laid out in how it all fit together. Just the basic ideas were awful. A bit like how DC did Infinite Crisis. I LOVED the way they ran up to that with the four different miniseries, that was brilliant. And then eh, Infinite Crisis. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 28, 2015 8:17:48 GMT
How they are going to get Movie Tony, who is basically a rich jackass (a very entertaining Jackass to watch, but nevertheless a rotten human being) Very much disagree! He's a damaged human being, not a rotten human being. He's a big child. He makes big mistakes, recognises them, admits them, fixes them, and goes on to make different mistakes. In life-or-death situations he acts selflessly. I admire him because of that and because he's constantly open to learning new lessons and doing better next time, e.g. creating the Vision (which saved the world, but which Cap tried to stop him doing) to fix the mistake he made when he created Ultron. By this point in the series, he's saved the world a few times and also endangered the world through his mistakes. I can see that he's now in a place where he wants to find a way to protect the world not only from aliens (his preoccupation at the start of Age of Ultron) but also from powerful individuals such as himself. AoU has shown him that well-meaning powerful people like himself can be as dangerous as super-villains. I think he's in a perfect place for Civil War. On the other hand, Cap is too perfect. I don't think he recognises any imperfections in who he is now, or respects anyone's moral code but his own. I think he's on the verge of tipping from being the guy who is right (as he was in The Winter Soldier) to being the guy who knows he's always right - i.e. becoming the villain. Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 28, 2015 8:51:27 GMT
Whereas I'm pretty bored by Stark at this point. There was a whole film about how he has come to accept himself and doesn't need to wear the armour anymore (Iron Man Three). He even blew up all his suits and went to be with his other half! Yet for no reason other than 'the actor made a new deal with the studio' he's still flying about being Iron Man. His story is done! Why is he still there? It really should be someone else in the suit by this point. Makes no sense!
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 28, 2015 9:00:59 GMT
Iron Man Three provided total closure and indeed a perfect opportunity for Stark and Iron Man to drop out of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
However, instead they've created new plot directions for the character - namely, wanting to make Earth secure, first from aliens, now from the mistakes of well-meaning unaccountable superheroes. It's a story. And I still find him hugely entertaining to watch.
Does any popular character like Iron Man ever get dropped for long from the comics just because someone's written a good story that gives their life closure? Not on your nelly.
Martin
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Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 28, 2015 9:27:27 GMT
Oddly my two favourite Iron Man stories both involve Stark being pulled apart!
The first is the Denny O'Neill story from c160 - about 201, collected in Enemy Within, Duel of Iron and Iron Monger which involves a substitute Iron Man I prefer to the original.
The other is the World's Most Wanted story that ran in Invincible Iron Man 8-24.
Beyond that, the rich playboy genius side of things bores me senseless.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Nov 28, 2015 9:31:46 GMT
Iron Man Three provided total closure and indeed a perfect opportunity for Stark and Iron Man to drop out of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. However, instead they've created new plot directions for the character - namely, wanting to make Earth secure, first from aliens, now from the mistakes of well-meaning unaccountable superheroes. It's a story. And I still find him hugely entertaining to watch. Does any popular character like Iron Man ever get dropped for long from the comics just because someone's written a good story that gives their life closure? Not on your nelly. Martin It's been tried. Chris Claremont intended Cyclops to be written out and only appear every so often. Then X-Factor happened Thor was replaced by Eric Masterton which to be fair lasted 3 years. DC did a better job when they killed off Barry Allen. Sadly he was brought back eventually. |
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 28, 2015 9:32:40 GMT
Iron Man Three provided total closure and indeed a perfect opportunity for Stark and Iron Man to drop out of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. However, instead they've created new plot directions for the character - namely, wanting to make Earth secure, first from aliens, now from the mistakes of well-meaning unaccountable superheroes. It's a story. And I still find him hugely entertaining to watch. Does any popular character like Iron Man ever get dropped for long from the comics just because someone's written a good story that gives their life closure? Not on your nelly. Martin Which is a problem comics have which movies do not need to inherit! When a character's story is done it should be finished and stay done. -Ralph |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 28, 2015 9:41:12 GMT
It's been tried. Chris Claremont intended Cyclops to be written out and only appear every so often. Then X-Factor happened Then we get the likes of Storm (see X-Men posts passim) whose story was done many MANY years ago. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 28, 2015 9:55:57 GMT
Which is a problem comics have which movies do not need to inherit! When a character's story is done it should be finished and stay done. I sometimes feel that way, but usually only in respect of re-boots... Transformers, particularly. I have no problem in a character having one story arc, and then if they're still alive getting a new story arc, provided it's good and not inconsistent with their life to date. Better to add positively to the events in the life of an existing character than erase them and start again with the same person's life but doing a variation on what went before. Surely it just depends on whether the new story arc for the character is worthy of them, not whether they should be allowed a second story arc as a point of principle? The new Star Wars has a lot to live up to, to justify its re-opening all the closure delivered in Return of the Jedi. Martin |
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