Transformers Partworks Trial

[The Doctor]

I hope you included THE OFFICIAL G2 ANNUAL in that request.

-Ralph

[primenova]

We also have a list of other volumes now.

Dark star, Time wars, Prime detective, Skyfire, Infiltration, Combiner wars

? Skyfire - not sure what this could be including. Maybe DW v3? Or Marvel upto #12.

[Andy Turnbull]

Nov 25, 2016 21:14:16 GMT primenova said:

We also have a list of other volumes now.

Dark star, Time wars, Prime detective, Skyfire, Infiltration, Combiner wars

? Skyfire - not sure what this could be including. Maybe DW v3? Or Marvel upto #12.

It will be the Sunstorm arc from DW Volume 3 1-6.

[inflatabledalek]

Combiner Wars also gives us a solid idea of how far forward it's going, probably to the end of season 2 of MTMTE/RID. Which makes sense as it's a natural enough end point should they decide not to extend it past the initial run. Plus after that you're into the Revolution crossover stuff and that might create headaches if non Transformers comics need reprinting as well for it to make sense.

Edit: It'll be interesting to see which way round they have Dark Star and Time Wars on the shelf, will they keep up the editorial (which was still Furman) approach of the UK comic at the time that Underbase happens first even though this blatantly isn't the case?

[primenova]

Time wars happens first mainly because everyone gets killed in Darkstar - Fortmax, Grimlock, Blaster, Goldbug, Wideload ... so you wouldn't have the characters around to get sent to Limbo.

[Andy Turnbull]

Time Wars needs to come first, not just for the whole injured folks who would be out of the picture, but for Scorponok. His attitude is a bit too agressive in Time Wars where as his Underbase appearances, while he is distrustful of Prime doesn't feel anywhere near as belligerent and is the part of him softening as more and more the Zarak personality subsumes Scorponok.

Andy

[browny87]

I don't really care as long as I finally get some issues of it!

as a side note on the ideas of new purchases, my missus and I are looking for a new house because my toys no longer fit in the spare room LOL!

[Andy Turnbull]

As it's going to launch in the New Year those of us with a subscription will get them starting with Target: 2006 again.

Which is nice.

Andy

[primenova]

Maybe they'll include all the UK covers in the wide release run (uk#89-92,94)

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Questions re: series like Marvel's Epic Collections and the Definitive Transformers collection, whose cover/spine designs and/or numbering assert that they will one day fit together to make a single continuous saga sitting on the bookshelf in the correct order... IF we are to believe that to be the truth, (a) why don't they release them in chronological order so that new readers can enjoy the evolving story rather than read the stories out of sequence, leading to spoilers and confusion, and (b) doesn't printing the 'big' stories first (Avengers: Under Siege / Judgement Day, Target: 2006, etc.) mean you're left with the less popular stuff later on, increasing the chances of the series dying the death?

I can understand publishers picking and choosing the most marketable runs of comics to print in trades, and opting not to reprint unpopular runs. But when a decision is made (or a claim made to that effect) to print a complete run, I can't understand why it isn't released in chronological order.

It doesn't affect me really, as I wouldn't want to fill my house with a complete run of any long-running Marvel comic, or another complete TF run, but if I did I would be sceptical about whether the series would run their course, I would resent having to take the gamble, and ideally I would like to return my books and get my money back if it got cancelled halfway through.

Martin

[Philip Ayres]

With the Marvel Epics there's already been two attempts at complete publishing: Masterworks & Epic collections. So they started with somethings that hadn't been reprinted in softcover and were desirable, EG Denny O'Neill Iron Man, Shooter c150 Avengers. They have now gone back and are starting to issue early volumes in order. By the middle of next year the first four Avengers volumes will be on the shelves for example.

With the partworks they, similarly, usually go for a big story to hook people in. For example Dredd went for America, TF Target 2006. With Judge Dredd there's an existing trade program which has collected the first 20 years of the run (so far) and I've only bought one volume of the series for material I didn't have.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Nov 29, 2016 8:18:07 GMT Philip Ayres said:

With the Marvel Epics there's already been two attempts at complete publishing:

Well in that case why not be kind to the people who invested money in those series and revive/continue them, doing second print runs of earlier volumes if there is demand from new readers? Why make the people who bought into those earlier aborted attempts at complete publishing and had their hopes dashed buy the same stories again in a new format which offers no greater guarantee of eventually forming a complete run than earlier attempts?

Printing volumes out of sequence wouldn't bother me at all if they didn't have numbers on the side or partial spine images that will just taunt collectors if the series gets cancelled.

Also... the fact that the new TF series begins with Target: 2006 and then jumps to Time Wars... Have they confirmed they actually have the rights to print the Death's Head stories? (And Spider-Man?)

Back on Marvel, the Epic Collections have already failed those who hoped for a complete run, as Hulk: Regression, although claiming on the back cover to collect #286-300, actually prints less than half of #296 due to having to cut out all the scenes featuring Rom.

Martin

[Fortmax2020]

The numbering on the spines of the TF part works editions I have suggests there will be a broadly chronological run of Marvel-DW-IDW 'G1' material. I don't think they will miss out anything. IDW have done fine with Marvel properties in their Classics editions so it would seem to be less of a problem these days.

[Philip Ayres]

Nov 29, 2016 8:28:16 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

Nov 29, 2016 8:18:07 GMT Philip Ayres said:

With the Marvel Epics there's already been two attempts at complete publishing:

Well in that case why not be kind to the people who invested money in those series and revive/continue them, doing second print runs of earlier volumes if there is demand from new readers? Why make the people who bought into those earlier aborted attempts at complete publishing and had their hopes dashed buy the same stories again in a new format which offers no greater guarantee of eventually forming a complete run than earlier attempts?

Basically Money. Why reprint something to get some more readers when you can get everyone to buy it all over again?

The two ordered reprint runs I'm thinking of for Marvel are Masterworks, which was HB, and Essentials, which was B&W.

There was an attempt to do pbk Masterworks which never really got going (5 X-Men volumes nearly finishing the Byrne run, no sure about other titles) It continues as Marvels HC reprint line, though no many volumes get published now.

Essentials had got to a stage where two of it's titles were presenting problems: they couldn't go much further with Wolverine & X-Men due to the lack of decent b&w files to reprint from. There was some attempted publishing greyscaling the colour, see posts passim in the Collected Editions Thread. *Personally* I think it was a brave decision to put Essentials out to pasture when they did. Avengers was one volume away from meeting the colour reprints, Marvel Team Up two volumes from finishing, Power Man & Iron Fist and Defenders one volume from finishing. Equally it's quite possible Essentials should have been shot ten years or so back and Epic collections done then. They were binned in the end because someone in Marvel editorial really didn't like them and go rid of them during a major reorg of their trade program (was this before or after the Disney takeover?)

I think there might also be an element of "bugger, we better do this now while we still can" for the colour Epic collections. The threat of digital comics looms large over their trade program.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I've got nothing against the Essentials, they published volumes in chronological order, not random order. I think they should have continued, just moving at some sensible point from black and white to colour.

Martin

[Philip Ayres]

Nov 29, 2016 9:37:31 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

I've got nothing against the Essentials, they published volumes in chronological order, not random order. I think they should have continued, just moving at some sensible point from black and white to colour.

Martin

The Dredd Casefiles did just that when the srips went full colour.

[The Doctor]

As has been explained many many many times, partworks are published in an entirely different way from numbered collected editions from comic publishers. Two entirely different markets.

Sigh.

-Ralph

[primenova]

Partworks are running with about 9 issues per book so we know the first year should be in the first 2 books. But v1 should be all the UK annual stuff on Cybertron then maybe US#1-4. But we know some stories are bad but they are going to be mixed with the good stuff. they are going to be printing (if they keep to same order in #1-4) Thunderwing in wrong order. So v16 he rules on Cybertron then v17 we see him in coloured UK stuff trying to earn the right to be Decepticon leader.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Nov 29, 2016 12:23:59 GMT The Doctor said:

As has been explained many many many times, partworks are published in an entirely different way from numbered collected editions from comic publishers.

I understand how they are published. I just don't like think highly of them*, particularly when they claim they're going to deliver the full story and then deliver the chapters of that story to readers in random order rather than in reading order. It's like repeating a TV series with the episodes or seasons in random order.

Two entirely different markets.

Not entirely different - big overlap.

Martin

(*Anything that emphasises the ultra-low price loudly in a big font while whispering the much higher regular price in the small print, like partworks tend to do when being promoted on TV/billboards, in newsagents' windows, etc., automatically rubs me the wrong way.)

[inflatabledalek]

You can certainly argue the out of order printing is cynical, but there's a logic to keeping thing varied. It means people who are only interested in material that might not be published for years otherwise get stuff to buy as it goes along, increasing the chance of the series as a whole making it to the end.

In terms of cancellation, that seems to be pretty rare for partworks, though whether I'll be extended to cover stuff published whilst it's been running is more uncertain (the Who one is very likely to go through the next two Capaldi seasons. Apparently there's a Marvel one that's not only been running so long as to overlap with a new Marvel series it's also really starting to annoy subscribers who are running out of space with the latest extension to 150 issues!).

Apparently each issue of the Trek ships partwork needs to sell 5000 copies to be considered a success (it's the benchmark set for the Titan release to guarantee more "Non-Canon" ships), though obviously that has overheads a straight reprint series won't, so the requirement should be a lot lower.

[Bogatan]

You say straight reprint series, but I wonder how much its costing them to license from Marvel IDW and anyone else who might be involved compared to the costs of producing ship models and whatever content goes in to the magazine.

I'm slowly coming around to the out of order approach. The thought of laying out however much for the Dreamwave phase is softened knowing it will only be £10 here and there rather than a full couple of months costing me £40, £50?. Ditto the Mccarthy/costa IDW period.

Haing said that I hope it ordered in a way to minimise spoilers or a least to make each volume as comprehensible to a new comer as possible.

[inflatabledalek]

IDW own the reprint rights to everything, the only time Hachette needs to deal with anyone else is when a specifically Marvel owned character appears (Oh Christ, that New Avengers crossover will be included. That's something that can happily be sacrificed in the name of being definitive), and even then that'll probably be done through IDW themselves and the deals they already have in place to reprint that material.

Costs are basically the licence, printing and staff salaries (though it'd be nice if the various creators who otherwise aren't going to see any cash from this get bunged even a token fee for contributions to the bonus material).

[primenova]

The original creators are getting nothing - they stick with Titan & IDW payment scheme where you don't pay the original creators when its a tpb. Even if the tpb is selling for £30 when you could have got the original comics back in the 80's for under £5 (this isn't dissing Classics collection - this is mainly for the non extras UK reprint tpb IDW did from Generations line)

[Fortmax2020]

The final product will all be in the correct order even if the release order is different. I hardly honk spoilers come into it given it is reprint material.

[Pinwig]

I think the out of order approach is simply to do with variety. The Who one is a clearer example - if you had to buy all the Hartnell volumes first it's not going to appeal to new series fans. It's less of an issue with Transformers, but Hachette will follow the same business model.

[freeestyle]

did anyone who subscribed send off for the free gift? if so what did you send?

[Andy Turnbull]

Nov 29, 2016 17:08:47 GMT inflatabledalek said:

IDW own the reprint rights to everything, the only time Hachette needs to deal with anyone else is when a specifically Marvel owned character appears (Oh Christ, that New Avengers crossover will be included. That's something that can happily be sacrificed in the name of being definitive), and even then that'll probably be done through IDW themselves and the deals they already have in place to reprint that material.

Costs are basically the licence, printing and staff salaries (though it'd be nice if the various creators who otherwise aren't going to see any cash from this get bunged even a token fee for contributions to the bonus material).

Given that Hachette have the Marvel license for the three Marvel partwork GN's and possibly fourth with the Spider-Man one, I imagine they are in a good position when it comes to printing the Marvel material - Spider-Man, Death's Head and Circuit Breaker being the only problematic elements. Everyone other character is Hasbro owned so would be covered under the TF license.

[Andy Turnbull]

Nov 29, 2016 20:41:46 GMT Pinwig said:

I think the out of order approach is simply to do with variety. The Who one is a clearer example - if you had to buy all the Hartnell volumes first it's not going to appeal to new series fans. It's less of an issue with Transformers, but Hachette will follow the same business model.

Actually, the more I think about it, Hachette might be doing something a bit devious. Look at what's coming out fairly quickly and early doors - Target 2006, Unicron saga, and the first Dreamwave and War Within.

All material that has been reprinted on more than one occasion by different publishers. If the first few volumes are cheap, people might be more willing to buy Target 2006 for the gazillionth time because it isn't going to cost too much.

They are using the existing partwork model, as it will make it more likely for completists to want to stay till the end. If you do the series in order 1 to 3, it's very easy for people to jump off and still have a nice run of books on their shelves.

Andy

[Pinwig]

I think I'm going to do this that way anyway; buy the 332 volumes as back issues. I have all the IDW collection books and they reprint all that stuff at a better size than the smaller Hachette size books. They'll also eventually be a complete uniform set, which might not be the case with the Hachette series depending where it stops.

[primenova]

You could wait & pick them up at a comic mart for maybe £5 each (but that would be paying more for the £1.99 #1 which i've seen on ebay for £9) also you get the free gifts, but it does say you get free postage when getting more than 3 issues on back issues. Also the features are good. Not on the James Roberts level but are good.