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Post by Shockprowl on Jul 13, 2017 21:20:11 GMT
Sideswipe and Sunstreaker definitely belong the way round AS DESCRIBED in the BIG PHIL THEORY.
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Post by Pinwig on Jul 13, 2017 21:56:25 GMT
The big Phil theory?
Is that a new NBC sitcom?
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jul 13, 2017 22:08:41 GMT
THE NAMES MAKE MORE SENSE THE OTHER WAY ROUND!!!!!! But it's not what they're called. -Ralph I concur with my esteemed colleague. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jul 13, 2017 22:14:38 GMT
He may make up silly Transformers names and harbour the Rabits of Doom, but THE BIG PHIL THEORY makes sense! (most of the time)
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 5, 2017 10:02:36 GMT
New Theory: Longtooth should have been a Decepticon and Stranglehold an Autobot
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Post by blueshift on Aug 5, 2017 10:13:56 GMT
Phil this is an old and established theory!!!!!!
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 5, 2017 10:18:20 GMT
I suspected it was, but I thought I'd give Ralph the opportunity to tell me why I'm wrong and swear a lot.
The Devepticon shell animal theme is an obvious pointer, but if they were swapped the skull details, Longtooth & Octopunch's belt and Bludgeon's chest, would all be on the Cons too
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Post by Toph on Aug 5, 2017 10:19:38 GMT
Aye, it's hardly new. I've always wondered this since they came out.
Longtooth's belt has a skull on it. Octopunch has a matching skull. Autobots aren't known for having skulls on them.
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Post by blueshift on Aug 5, 2017 12:02:42 GMT
Aye, it's hardly new. I've always wondered this since they came out. Longtooth's belt has a skull on it. Octopunch has a matching skull. Autobots aren't known for having skulls on them. Apart from that RiD Autobot Bludgeon repaint!  Do the little figures fit in each other? I'd have also assumed that all the beasts went in the monster shells and the vehicles in the Autobot ones but no idea how much the shells are molded to the internals. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 5, 2017 12:19:31 GMT
Apart from that RiD Autobot Bludgeon repaint! That Blastwave remains an oddity to me even now I have the Bludgeon. Do the little figures fit in each other? I'd have also assumed that all the beasts went in the monster shells and the vehicles in the Autobot ones but no idea how much the shells are molded to the internals. Good question. Anyone got all six Samll Pretenders to try? |
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Post by blueshift on Aug 5, 2017 12:21:09 GMT
I'd be so interested to hear!
I mean I assume Doubleheader was always the double-jet and Octopunch was always the crab, but none of the others really bear any relation to their inner robots.
And we don't know at what stage of the design process stuff got switched.
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Post by Toph on Aug 5, 2017 12:54:47 GMT
Well, the shells are designed to accommodate the altmode kibble pieces of the inner robots.
Octopunch's shell has holes to plug his crab legs into it's back. No other shell does.
Stranglehold's rhino back plugs into the shell's shoulder like shoulder armor.
Longtooth's rear blue half clips onto the shell's back like a backpack.
I don't have the other three, but photos show the same for them. And while it's been decades since I've had mine out, I seem to remember them being designed to only store the robot that came with them.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 5, 2017 15:38:12 GMT
New Theory: Longtooth should have been a Decepticon and Stranglehold an Autobot You're just making shit up now. -Ralph |
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Post by blueshift on Aug 5, 2017 15:41:56 GMT
Longtooth and Octopunch both have skull belts and Bludgeon has a skull face.
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Post by legios on Aug 5, 2017 16:39:04 GMT
Belts and faces are not the same thing... Also, Bludgeon only has that face because it goes with the rest of the armour that his Pretender shell has. Faceplates that we would say look like skulls (they are basically Oni - or similar monstrous creatures - faces)were a common feature of Great Armour like that. I'm not convinced that Bludgeon's Pretender shell looking like a medieval Japanese person in armour, and Octopunch and Longtooth having the same belt buckles are indications of alleigance. To me that argument doesn't feel like it has much more substance than saying that the Dinobots should be Decepticons because they are "Prehistoric Monsters" and being a monster isn't very heroic.
Karl
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Post by blueshift on Aug 5, 2017 16:50:16 GMT
Well yes, we're not saying it's definite, it's a theory. And I mean these things are designed by human beings, and everything was put there with some sort of decision being put behind it. It's not crazy to think that the three characters who have skull-adornments (two of them identical) were meant at some point to be on the same side!! After all, all the other Autobot Pretenders were humans, and all the other Decepticons were monsters (apart from Classic Starscream, but I'd wager him and his friends were designed seperately. Also I buy the 'American President's idea for them, as it's fun!)
If the internal guys are not interchangeable, I'd imagine that decision was made to switch Longtooth and Stranglehold early on, as you'd also imagine we'd have beasts vs vehicles too. (Again, it's a theory, but given there's exactly three of each, it's an alluring one!)
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Post by legios on Aug 5, 2017 16:50:22 GMT
And japanese names rarely make any sense to western people anyway. They have called transformers Jackshot, Greejeeber, Star Upper, Roseanna, Glit, Angela, Joe, and Alan. I can't comment on the others, but Greejeeber is perfectly sensible. He is a Gree(n) Jeep - in the same way as Rhinox is a Rhinoceros and Cheetor is a Cheetah. In terms of Gelshark that is perfectly understandable - those aren't different in Japanese, but are in English. There aren't separate R and L sounds in Japanese (iirc) in quite the same way, so in English both represent the same word. So how you translate it is a matter of convention. Either Takara issues something using one or the other in English, and that then becomes the official translation, or fandom reaches a critical mass of folk using one version and then that becomes unofficially the "correct" version. At least that one is only a spelling difference - translating Kohai and Sempai into English is next to impossible to do completely because English-speaking cultures don't entirely have a concept which matches all the nuances... (Robotech famously went for "Big Brother", which I can see but doesn't capture all of the nuance of not being on the same strata of society. Heck, Marci's "Sir" in Peanuts is probably just as viable. I've seen more than one translator just not even bother with it.) Karl |
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Post by legios on Aug 5, 2017 16:55:31 GMT
Well yes, we're not saying it's definite, it's a theory. Oh indeed, I'm just getting into the spirit of that - theories, after all, exist to be tested to see if they survive refutation. :-) Karl (I'm not a strict Popperian Falsificationist, but a surprising amount of my current job is comprised of coming up with theories as to why something isn't working and then trying to work out how to prove that this isn't the cause. That's how you confirm what is the cause, by ruling out other things). |
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 5, 2017 22:26:16 GMT
BIG PHIL'S THEORY IS RIGHT AGAIN!
Bludgeon's wave of Pretenders is all messed up. Longtooth's shell, Stranglehold's (ZARDOZ!) shell, Pincher's inner robot, Bludgeon's inner robot. It's a big mess!
....maybe they made Lonngtooth an Autobot 'cos HE'S DO CUTE.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 5, 2017 22:34:12 GMT
Don't encourage him!
-Ralph
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Post by Toph on Aug 5, 2017 23:08:44 GMT
Which is exactly why I said no one can agree on how to translate them.
Not really. Deathsaurus's creator has said AT BOTCON that "Dezarus" is a mistranslation and just plain silly, and the character in named Deathsaurus and should be translated as such. And we as a fandom still debate whether he should be called Deathsaurus or Dezarus.
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Post by Toph on Aug 5, 2017 23:19:05 GMT
Belts and faces are not the same thing... Also, Bludgeon only has that face because it goes with the rest of the armour that his Pretender shell has. Faceplates that we would say look like skulls (they are basically Oni - or similar monstrous creatures - faces)were a common feature of Great Armour like that. I'm not convinced that Bludgeon's Pretender shell looking like a medieval Japanese person in armour, and Octopunch and Longtooth having the same belt buckles are indications of alleigance. To me that argument doesn't feel like it has much more substance than saying that the Dinobots should be Decepticons because they are "Prehistoric Monsters" and being a monster isn't very heroic. Karl Unless you're wearing your leader's face as a badge, then it makes perfect sense for longtooth and octopunch to have had skull belts. But I suppose wearing your leader's face as a badge just doesn't happen in Transformers  |
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,243
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Post by The Huff on Aug 6, 2017 6:21:06 GMT
RE. Longtooth's monster shell and belt buckle, remember this was just a disguise - perhaps by then, the Autobots thought the idea to keep using giant 40ft human shells to hide in was becoming a bit obvious so thought they'd try something new.
As for the inner robots switching - I'll give it a go later. I've always thought that the scorpion (Pincher) robot suited Bludgeon's shell much more than a tank. Then again, Bludgeon's name always sounded wrong to me too.
Another one is the Triggerbots/Cons. There has always been the suspicion that Windsweeper and Dogfight should have been on opposite sides. There is an obvious reason. Any thoughts?
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Post by blueshift on Aug 6, 2017 8:18:29 GMT
RE. Longtooth's monster shell and belt buckle, remember this was just a disguise - perhaps by then, the Autobots thought the idea to keep using giant 40ft human shells to hide in was becoming a bit obvious so thought they'd try something new. I mean sure that's an in-universe explanation, but not a 'real life' one where it's pretty clear Hasbro were consistently going for Bots = humans, Cons = Monsters (And maybe the 'lets switch it up' was the reason for the change, but I think it's more likely than not that the Longtooth shell was designed as a Decepticon first Of course, the Double Pretenders, which would have come afterwards, had an Autobot gorilla (we assume it's a gorilla? Maybe the spider was the Autobot!!) Another one is the Triggerbots/Cons. There has always been the suspicion that Windsweeper and Dogfight should have been on opposite sides. There is an obvious reason. Any thoughts? YEah at some point Windsweeper and Dogfight must have been switched. Again it's mad that there's a standard weapon design for each side apart from those two. Alternately you'd expect there to be three weapon designs, one for each side. But not 2/1 and 1/2. That's weird and not something you'd deliberately design. |
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Post by Toph on Aug 6, 2017 8:59:41 GMT
I do think Longtooth being an autobot is intentional, for the sake of variety. Let the autobots have a freaky monster. Meanwhile they gave Burt Reynolds to the decepticons, because of the three humans, Burt Reynolds was the meanest looking one.
But yeah, they were most likely DESIGNED to be humans=heroes, monsters=villains.
The biggest travesty was them missing the opportunity to have named Burt Reynolds Cannonball.
Speaking of... this means Burt and Starscream are the only human pretenders in the decepticons.
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Post by Jaymz on Aug 6, 2017 10:44:00 GMT
Don't forget Alice...
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Post by legios on Aug 6, 2017 11:09:49 GMT
I had successfully managed to do just that until right now... *shudders in horror*
Karl
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 6, 2017 11:14:04 GMT
I think we should all know by now, given the fine work by those talented folks at Omni Productions for their dub of Victory that his name is in fact DEATHSANRAS.
Andy
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Post by blueshift on Aug 6, 2017 11:57:03 GMT
I think we should all know by now, given the fine work by those talented folks at Omni Productions for their dub of Victory that his name is in fact DEATHSANRAS. Andy I always assumed there was never a translation difficulty, it was more "Oh god, Deathsaurus sounds stupid" |
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 6, 2017 12:17:57 GMT
Oh fuck I had completely forgotten about her until this moment. Damn you! |
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