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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Oct 13, 2015 17:24:41 GMT
Thanks to Phil, I have now read 'Rebirth of Thanos' and 'Infinity Gauntlet'.
I give the first book a hearty thumbs-up - very enjoyable, particularly the Silver Surfer issues.
'Infinity Gauntlet', however, I found to be standard fare everyone-pile-on-the-supervillain-and-die-but-be-saved-by-some-magical-device. Too much cosmic stuff going on to allow room for characterisation, and no real suspense when it came to the deaths, etc. which were obviously going to be reversed at the end.
Hope the movie version will be a bit less cosmic and more human.
Martin
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Post by Philip Ayres on Oct 13, 2015 17:40:24 GMT
I'd recommend tracking down the Avengers vs Thanos book I also suggested you read but didn't have a copy of to hand.
If you liked those Silver Surfer issues then you might enjoy the imminent Silver Surfer Epic Collection 3: Freedom which prints the start of that series.
I'm not fond of Infinity Gaunlet either but know it has many fans.
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 13, 2015 17:45:50 GMT
What! You too???!!!
-Ralph
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Jim
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Post by Jim on Oct 13, 2015 21:34:01 GMT
Infinity Gauntlet is amazing! There has never been as good a cross-over comic since, if that doesn't sound too much like damning with faint praise. Some great "moments" - Silver Surfer's big miss, the dawning realisation of what Warlock's plan was all along, the closing images of the "retired" Thanos... I suppose it does all depend a bit on your tolerance for events though.
-Jim
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Oct 14, 2015 6:20:50 GMT
I suppose it does all depend a bit on your tolerance for events though. I have low tolerance for events that revolve around one invincible bad guy versus large numbers of good guys, most of whom normally get their own stories but are in this case just treated as cannon-fodder. (Lots of these events in Transformers, unfortunately.) Also low tolerance of cosmic beings nonsensically portrayed as caucasian humanoid in appearance. But some 'events' work for me. Quite enjoyed the first two Secret Wars series - particularly factoring in the SWII crossovers. And part-way into it, I'm enjoying Age of Apocalypse. It's really a question of the extent to which the scripts allow the individual mortal cast members to breathe and influence events rather than being disposable pawns. And the extent to which the events inter-weave with their ongoing stories. Bigger doesn't make better. Martin |
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Post by Jim on Oct 14, 2015 6:45:08 GMT
Good points, I think IG gives more if you come in to it with more background in Starlin's cosmic characters. I am generally not a big event fan, and have come to resent them more in recent years derailing good comics which should have been relatively self-contained. Even as a kid where Transformers was concerned I was a bit tired of "the next big story" by the end of Time Wars and really quite enjoyed Earthforce et al because of this.
AoA is great, although for me some of the stories get a bit too grim in that What If?-style, freedom-to-kill-lots-of-characters-means-we-must kind of a way.
Also agree re SW, and as for SWII there are some brilliant tie-in issues but the central story left me a bit cold.
-Jim
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 14, 2015 7:57:39 GMT
I like IG precisely because it allows the characters to breathe and drive events rather than just be a Big Fight (which is why many Big Comic Events bore me). AOA bores me stupid though: it's all meaningless.
However, I must salute Martin for liking Secret Wars II!
-Ralph
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Post by Jim on Oct 14, 2015 11:26:06 GMT
I like IG precisely because it allows the characters to breathe and drive events rather than just be a Big Fight (which is why many Big Comic Events bore me). It certainly does, but I could forgive people coming in cold for finding Warlock especially hard to latch on to. I like how for once the villain's motivation isn't power as an end in itself - he really is motivated by love, and it's the nominal hero whose motivation and behaviour is most questionable (and which is nicely followed up on in Infinity Watch). I felt like it reenergised some of the titles, being cut free from the ongoing (and at the time, heavily editorially driven) X-books. Some of them went a bit too nihilistic though, when I read it through a couple of years ago I wasn't always in the mood for it. Generation Next in particular was a real downer. -Jim |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Oct 14, 2015 21:55:05 GMT
I like IG precisely because it allows the characters to breathe and drive events rather than just be a Big Fight The build-up was OK in parts, but I didn't feel that Cap, Cyclops, Spidey, etc. were allowed to react properly to all their friends and family having been killed off, and then it did descend into a Big Fight with deaths of major characters thick and fast, sometimes happening off-camera. Was any reader really expected to believe that Iron Man, Cyclops and Spidey were going to stay dead? No - so what was the point in going through the motions of killing them? Apart from Thanos, I found the characters given most airtime were all rather dull. Martin |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Oct 14, 2015 22:09:59 GMT
We shall need to furnish you with the 70's Adam Warlock tales, as Jim says, Warlock is hard character to come in cold to. I'd read a smattering of his 70's tales before IG so knew what to expect.
The Infinity Gauntlet had tie in issues - Spider-Man had a very good encounter with Death and Thanos in one issue, which I think you would enjoy Martin. Sadly not that for Cyclops as he and X-Factor were embroiled in the Muir Island saga at the time and the X-office at the time had the clout to tell crossovers to GTF.
Andy
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Post by Philip Ayres on Oct 15, 2015 12:44:09 GMT
We shall need to furnish you with the 70's Adam Warlock tales, as Jim says, Warlock is hard character to come in cold to. I'd read a smattering of his 70's tales before IG so knew what to expect. a good proportion of the Cosmic Jim Warlock stories are in the Avengers vs Thanos trade I wanted to lend Martin and couldn't find |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 20, 2015 16:46:06 GMT
Thanks to Phil, I have now read 'Rebirth of Thanos' and 'Infinity Gauntlet'. I give the first book a hearty thumbs-up - very enjoyable, particularly the Silver Surfer issues. 'Infinity Gauntlet', however, I found to be standard fare everyone-pile-on-the-supervillain-and-die-but-be-saved-by-some-magical-device. Too much cosmic stuff going on to allow room for characterisation, and no real suspense when it came to the deaths, etc. which were obviously going to be reversed at the end. Hope the movie version will be a bit less cosmic and more human. Martin I took a train to Swindon today to return the two TPBs Phil lent me at Lego Con. Now I no longer have two of Phil's TPBs in my house. Now I have four. For the record that's the first volumes of: Byrne's FF Miller's Daredevil Simonson's Thor Morrison's X-Men |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Nov 20, 2015 18:15:39 GMT
Oh that's some good reading.
Might I recommend that Martin gets some classic Excalibur at a future gathering.
Andy
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Post by blueshift on Nov 20, 2015 18:29:41 GMT
For the record that'sa the first volumes of: Byrne's FF Miller's Daredevil Simonson's Thor Morrison's X-Men Martin seems to be mirroring my reading!! I read Miller's Daredevil last weekend and am currently working through Simonson's Thor and (rereading) Morrison's X-Men. I shall check out Bryne's FF too if it's on the app! |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 20, 2015 19:07:55 GMT
Oh dear! I told Phil that I'd read virtually no Daredevil. Unfortunately the virtually nothing that I'd read was the pocketbook released this spring, which has identical contents to this volume. However, I shall enjoy re-reading it full-size. The Thor and FF look like containing hours of reading pleasure. The computer colouring and new-style art puts me off the New X-Men somewhat but I shall try not to let that influence my judgement of the stories. Due to the lower word count per page it looks like being a quicker read than the others so I think I shall begin with this one.
Martin
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Post by blueshift on Nov 20, 2015 19:13:46 GMT
Oh dear! I told Phil that I'd read virtually no Daredevil. Unfortunately the virtually nothing that I'd read was the pocketbook released this spring, which has identical contents to this volume. However, I shall enjoy re-reading it full-size. The Thor and FF look like containing hours of reading pleasure. The computer colouring and new-style art puts me off the New X-Men somewhat but I shall try not to let that influence my judgement of the stories. Due to the lower word count per page it looks like being a quicker read than the others so I think I shall begin with this one. Martin I like Frank Quitely's art, and he's a big name artist, but he is accused of drawing 'potato people' |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 21, 2015 7:56:24 GMT
Ah, underestimated the word count in New X-Men (although something's missing without the narration boxes and thought balloons). Darned good stories! With mediocre art. This book and my housework will be my Saturday.
Martin
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Post by blueshift on Nov 21, 2015 9:47:21 GMT
Ah, underestimated the word count in New X-Men (although something's missing without the narration boxes and thought balloons). Darned good stories! With mediocre art. This book and my housework will be my Saturday. Martin Potato people! The stories are incredible in that. The art is a taste thing. I seem to recall Frank Quitely was down to do it all but got way behind so there's lot of other artists thrown in the mix, some good some bad (I'm sure someone will rush to correct me!). Easily one of the best, if not THE best comic runs ever. The X-Men run that came directly afterwards on the other hand, was the worst. Nice one Marvel! |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 21, 2015 16:25:03 GMT
 Martin |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 28, 2015 8:21:55 GMT
Martin, how you getting on with the Simonson Thor volume? Still just two issues in, I'm afraid. Not because I've been reading anything else, but because of 'The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies' extended edition, its director's commentary and its ten hours of extras. I will polish Thor off this weekend, before the Blu-ray release of 'Ant-Man' and 'Agent Carter' on Monday. Martin |
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Post by legios on Nov 28, 2015 10:47:30 GMT
Simonson Thor is probably one of my favourite runs. It manages to be at once gloriously epic and do the mythological stuff really well , and at the same time there is still a great vein of humour running through it. (I've an enormous love of both he and his wife as comic creators).
Karl
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 28, 2015 18:23:38 GMT
Simonson Thor is probably one of my favourite runs. It manages to be at once gloriously epic and do the mythological stuff really well , and at the same time there is still a great vein of humour running through it. You mean like Clark Kent and Lois Lane having a cameo in the same story that Nick Fury suggests Thor hide his identity by wearing glasses... Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 28, 2015 21:05:06 GMT
That is a glorious throwaway gag!
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 29, 2015 17:32:32 GMT
I've finished Thor! It's superb! I must find out what happens next!!!
I really like the use of sudden scene changes at moments of suspense.
Martin
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Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 29, 2015 17:41:28 GMT
Four more volumes of that to come next time you want Pizza :-)
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 29, 2015 17:45:28 GMT
Four more volumes of that to come next time you want Pizza :-) Marvellous. Though the universe looks like it's surely doomed in the next couple of chapters, never mind four volumes... Let's fix something up in the new year - just the thing for the post-holiday blues. In the meantime, still got the Fantastic Four volume and a re-reading of Miller Daredevil to go. Martin |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 29, 2015 17:53:53 GMT
You have read two issues later on in the Simonson run already: they're in Mutant Massacre
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 29, 2015 17:57:29 GMT
You have read two issues later on in the Simonson run already: they're in Mutant Massacre Is that the one with the talking frog? Martin |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 29, 2015 18:01:50 GMT
Yes, I think the talking Frog does appear before Thor goes into the tunnels.
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Post by blueshift on Nov 29, 2015 18:23:39 GMT
Yes, I think the talking Frog does appear before Thor goes into the tunnels. Yeah, he goes into the tunnels because his frog friends that he made while he was a frog tell him about the massacre. (No, really, his frog friends) |
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