Star Trek: Discovery

[Bogatan]

I was watching a video recently that said Disco was mucked around with a lot after filming to bulk up its episode count. Apparently the first 2 pre Discovery episodes were originally flash backs used later in the season. But they used some of their reshoot time to expand them in to the episodes we got. In the process they some how altered the story and or Burnhams actions leaving that weird disconnect between the level of hatred she experiences and her actual actions that were supposed to have caused them.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

You know, thinking about it, I think the first two episodes might have worked better moved and inserted a bit later, and kick off the series with episode 3 and a bit of mystery as to what came before.

Martin

[Bogatan]

Yeah as soon as I heard that I thought Burnham on the prison transport would have been such a strong opener.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

What they ended up with was what Star Trek: TNG would have been if there'd been a false start of two episodes at the beginning with Picard on the Stargazer and the death of Jack Crusher, before 'Encounter at Farpoint'.

Edit: Or a whole episode of Sisko at the battle of Wolf 359 before 'Emissary'.

Martin

[The Doctor]

Oh there are novels who show all of that!!!

-Ralph

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I have no doubt.

Martin

[Toph]

Michelle Yeoh is one of my absolute favorite actresses. And she is as high calibre as it gets, too.

So when it was announced she was gonna be in the new Star Trek, I was just in absolute bliss!

But then it premiered, and we saw Georgiou in action, and she was just so... bland? She wasn't bad, but there just wasn't anything to write home about, particularly when paired off of Sonequa Martin-Green and Doug Jones.
It was like, the role was just a paycheck. It kinda made me wonder why she bothered, because she could easily get bigger projects.

Then we met The Empress, and she absolutely ate that up.
And I realized that's the role she wanted.
Hearing that the battle at the binary stars, and her scenes as Captain Georgiou were intended to be shown as flashbacks makes a lot of this make more sense.

[Llama God]

Mar 16, 2024 16:54:27 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

I really enjoyed the final four episodes of season 1. So good to have Michelle Yeoh back. And to find that all the stuff early on actually had a point to it, and the characters that I didn't care for initially were never intended to stay the way they were at the start.

Indeed. It's good when stuff like that pays off. Although it doesn't make it any less annoying to have to sit through the characters in the first place...

And yes, I'd agree that I think those first two episodes would've been much better as flashbacks. They were exciting to watch when first released as the first new Trek on telly in over a decade, but then episode 3 happens and it all feels a bit odd.

[The Doctor]

The first two episodes have different directors. What is the source for the claim they were initially intended as flashback material?

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

Mar 16, 2024 18:15:57 GMT Bogatan said:

I was watching a video recently that said Disco was mucked around with a lot after filming to bulk up its episode count. Apparently the first 2 pre Discovery episodes were originally flash backs used later in the season. But they used some of their reshoot time to expand them in to the episodes we got. In the process they some how altered the story and or Burnhams actions leaving that weird disconnect between the level of hatred she experiences and her actual actions that were supposed to have caused them.

Information on Memory Alpha gives no indication that these episode were made in that manner

memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Vulcan_Hello_(episode)#Background_information

memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_at_the_Binary_Stars_(episode)#Background_information

memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Context_Is_for_Kings_(episode)#Background_information

There's some insinuation there that the series may have been meant to start with episode 3 but none that material for 1 & 2 was shot as flashback for later episodes.

EDIT Episode 3 however outright states it was meant to be the third episode from the start

[The Doctor]

Yes, that is what I understood to be the case.

-Ralph

[Bogatan]

Mar 17, 2024 11:39:26 GMT Philip Ayres said:

Mar 16, 2024 18:15:57 GMT Bogatan said:

I was watching a video recently that said Disco was mucked around with a lot after filming to bulk up its episode count. Apparently the first 2 pre Discovery episodes were originally flash backs used later in the season. But they used some of their reshoot time to expand them in to the episodes we got. In the process they some how altered the story and or Burnhams actions leaving that weird disconnect between the level of hatred she experiences and her actual actions that were supposed to have caused them.

Information on Memory Alpha gives no indication that these episode were made in that manner

memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Vulcan_Hello_(episode)#Background_information

memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_at_the_Binary_Stars_(episode)#Background_information

memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Context_Is_for_Kings_(episode)#Background_information

There's some insinuation there that the series may have been meant to start with episode 3 but none that material for 1 & 2 was shot as flashback for later episodes.

EDIT Episode 3 however outright states it was meant to be the third episode from the start

www.youtube.com/watch?v=E07tr3fFRgg

Relevant bit starts 14:45
I have no idea how true the theory is (and that is what she says it is) but shes usually pretty good on Trek and I do remember the episode count being increased. And structurally the season make sooo much more sense if it is true.

[Bogatan]

In defense of the theory heavy reshoots of this manner are not generally advertised and most of that background info is coming from DVD extras and other promo materials.

[The Doctor]

Ah. I see. Just a fan theory then.

-Ralph

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Based on the first two episodes of season 2, Martin could have a new second favourite Star Trek captain (after Sir Patrick).

Though thinking about it, I'm not sure who my second favourite would have been up until now. Sulu, perhaps. ("Are you kidding?")

Season 2 episode 2 was superb.

Martin

[legios]

It is a very good performance. Mount has a lot of screen presence and a certain "old-fashioned" on-screen charisma which does work rather well.

Karl

[Philip Ayres]

Mar 21, 2024 18:44:03 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

Based on the first two episodes of season 2, Martin could have a new second favourite Star Trek captain (after Sir Patrick).

I'll get the Strange New Worlds Blu Rays in then

[The Doctor]

Pike was very good in Disco.

SNW is rubbish though.

-Ralph

[Fortmax2020]

In your opinion.

Season 1 had some rough patches and I wasn't that impressed, but season 2 was excellent. Pike excellent throughout both.

[The Doctor]

Only seen SNW S1 and I wasn't keen.

-Ralph

[Llama God]

Will agree that Anson Mount was indeed excellent - I think it was mostly based on the strength of his performance that they commissioned Strange New Worlds. And I'm so glad that they did - it is easily my second favourite series of modern day Trek - narrowly beaten by Lower Decks.

I mostly like SNW because it decided to ditch the "each season has to have a universe-ending arc plot" that plagued a lot of the newer series, and just went for stories of the week - which was a lovely return to form. I think I enjoyed season 1 more than season 2, but that was just because of the newness. Season 2 is a lot more uneven, but that's because they're trying new things every week, which I do appreciate and hope they keep doing. I'd rather a series aim for something and miss than settle for consistent mediocrity...

[Pinwig]

I concur with Llama pretty much completely, except my fave series would be DS9 followed by SNW. I liked season one more than two because I felt two got too trapped by needing to make each episode about a specific character at the expense of the team, so the ensemble episodes got a bit lost.

[Jim]

I enjoyed SNW season one but it hit a wall for me with that fairy tale episode. I couldn't stand it, it took me several sittings to finish watching it and then I lost momentum, so have only seen the (excellent) Lower Decks crossover beyond that point.

[Fortmax2020]

I think they learnt from how wrong that fairy tale episode went. Season 2 is experimental in the same way but it works so much better. Even a bad season 2 episode was better than most season 1.

[Toph]

I guess I'm alone in liking the fairytale episode.
It's proper TOS unhinged madness

[Fortmax2020]

I think there was a good idea in it. But the script and/performances failed to sell it well enough.

[Llama God]

Mar 24, 2024 8:14:08 GMT Toph said:

I guess I'm alone in liking the fairytale episode.
It's proper TOS unhinged madness

Nah, not alone - it was one of the highlights of season one for me, just because the cast seemed to be having so much fun. And also because of the sudden swerve into emotional gut punch at the end of the episode.

[Jim]

The ending worked really well, I’ll give it that. But for me the cast having fun doesn’t automatically translate into an enjoyable experience to watch, and this struck me as one of the self-indulgent insidery ones. Sometimes DS9’s mirror universe episodes went like this, but other times they had enough pace to pull it off.

The greatest shame of it all for me is that it’s a doctor episode and I really like the doctor!

I didn’t realize this was a particularly disliked episode, I thought the consensus was more against Spock Amok which I found to be good fun!

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Finished season 2. Enjoyed that a lot, although some of the goodbye scenes were cringingly drawn out, given they were occurring in the midst of a pitched battle. But still, for the most part hugely enjoyable.

Martin

[The Doctor]

Yeah, S2 was tops fun.

-Ralph