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Post by Toph on Jul 29, 2017 18:32:12 GMT
Aye. Spock almost never talks about family, unless they're in the room. An adopted sister he'd never mentioned is THE most in line thing they've done yet.
He never mentioned he had a fiancé, until it was necessary. He never mentioned a dang thing about his parents until they were on board. He never mentioned a brother until said brother wanted to become a god, and took over an outpost.
Kirk was dumbfounded when he found out about Sybok.
Michael is completely believable. |
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Post by blueshift on Jul 29, 2017 19:35:33 GMT
Apparently the main character of Star Trek Discovery {Spoiler}is Spock's adopted human sister who we've never heard of before. OF COURSE. {Spoiler}In fairness it took 20 years to hear about Spooks brother who was never mentioned again. Spooks made about 5 appearances since then, so another unmentioned sibling isnt that out there. I mean in-universe god, maybe, but then in every iteration we'd have to believe that also Spock's brother, mother and father never mentioned this as well. And given Spock's character was struggling with his joint human/vulcan heritage, maybe you'd have expected them to Also out-of-universe, why the hell would you do that. Shows amazing lack of imagination. I mean you can justify all these stupid ideas with canon but at the end of the day, a room of people somehow thought that was a good idea for the show. And maybe it is. But it probably isn't. Like making the Doctor half human in the TVM. Sure you can justify it by pointing to canon or lack thereof. But really, what on earth did it actually add/do? Why do it? |
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 29, 2017 19:58:57 GMT
Spoiler
In fairness it took 20 years to hear about Spooks brother who was never mentioned again. Spooks made about 5 appearances since then, so another unmentioned sibling isnt that out there. I mean in-universe Spoiler
god, maybe, but then in every iteration we'd have to believe that also Spock's brother, mother and father never mentioned this as well. And given Spock's character was struggling with his joint human/vulcan heritage, maybe you'd have expected them to Also out-of-universe, why the hell would you do that. Shows amazing lack of imagination. I mean you can justify all these stupid ideas with canon but at the end of the day, a room of people somehow thought that was a good idea for the show. And maybe it is. But it probably isn't. Like making the Doctor half human in the TVM. Sure you can justify it by pointing to canon or lack thereof. But really, what on earth did it actually add/do? Why do it? in universe
well sure, but my point still stands. in 20 years Spock and parent never mention Sybok till he's relevant to a story. If he hadn't tried to become God he'd still never have been mentioned.
As Jetty said if she winds up dead then that might make even more sense for her not being mentioned. If Spock couldn't deal with it he'd block it.
It also makes more sense of Saraks presence.
{out of universe}As with pretty much every other choice its either going to be stupid or great depending on how and why its happening.
Hopefully if the writers came up with these things it will be for good reason and done well. If its studio enforced hopefully the writers can do something clever with it.
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Post by Shockprowl on Jul 29, 2017 21:35:48 GMT
Aye. Spock almost never talks about family, unless they're in the room. An adopted sister he'd never mentioned is THE most in line thing they've done yet.
He never mentioned he had a fiancé, until it was necessary. He never mentioned a dang thing about his parents until they were on board. He never mentioned a brother until said brother wanted to become a god, and took over an outpost.
Kirk was dumbfounded when he found out about Sybok.
Michael is completely believable. Haa! That makes me feel a lot better! Thanks CJ, ol'cyber pal. |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 29, 2017 22:32:45 GMT
Bogatan, Thor doesn't apply here. That was the Kelvin Timeline.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 29, 2017 22:38:18 GMT
Blueshift, I think you missed my point. There is a difference between an individual point of view and the rabid dogpiling every single announcement has had from some 'fans'. Really hate filled psychotic rants. I've been quite dismayed by the personal nature of much of the vitriol.
That is quite different from yourself (for example) saying why you may not be too hot on the show and giving reasoned examples for your opinion. That's fine. It's when folk make threats towards folk making the show that a line has been crossed. It also misses the point of what Star Trek is all about.
I'm looking forward to Discovery. It's been 12 years since the last Trek show and I am delighted to see a return to the original Star Trek universe. I enjoyed Beyond but still don't see the point of a rebooted timeline. As for whether I like Discovery ask me after September 25th!
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on Jul 30, 2017 6:57:04 GMT
Blueshift, I think you missed my point. There is a difference between an individual point of view and the rabid dogpiling every single announcement has had from some 'fans'. Really hate filled psychotic rants. I've been quite dismayed by the personal nature of much of the vitriol. That is quite different from yourself (for example) saying why you may not be too hot on the show and giving reasoned examples for your opinion. That's fine. It's when folk make threats towards folk making the show that a line has been crossed. Is there though? I mean I've not seen that much negativity that I'd say is unjustified. THere's always going to be crazies and it's in the studio's best interests to paint all criticism of something as coming from that one loony contingent. Like... with the Ghostbusters film. Sure there were some people who were frothing sexists. But that was a tiny tiny proportion. Sony went out of their way to actively delete any comment of criticism that wasn't frothing sexism from their videos but leave in the sexist stuff (seriously, its crazy) so they could claim all and any criticism was based on people being sexist rather than, you know, it looking awful. Every big company wants to be like Marvel now. But the difference is that Marvel has spent time building up a lot of respect and trust in an audience. People are automatically excited because there's a track record of quality. If a company has a track record of awful stuff and comes out with lots of publicity material that looks like there's been lots of dubious decisions made, then of course people are going to be suspicious and annoyed rather than cheering on. Trek isn't a new property, it's one they've been managing to mess up for a good while. Coming out and saying "YEAH ITS GONNA BE ENTERPRISE MK2 WITH RUBBISH REDESIGNS AND MORE SHOEHORNED IN WEIRD CONTINUITY" means of course you start from a negative position. It could be good! But they're starting from a bad position that they've constructed for themselves. I don't think those reactions are unreasonable. But I also don't think the majority of these reactions are such frothing, that's just what the studio wants you to think to deflect any real criticism. That's the game pretty much every company is playing nowadays. Social media really helps to magnify the tiny tiny number of loonies. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jul 30, 2017 7:23:11 GMT
Bogatan, Thor doesn't apply here. That was the Kelvin Timeline. -Ralph It does as that's when the timelines diverged. Unless the uniforms we saw were special Temporal Anomaly Uniforms they all donned just before we joined them. |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 30, 2017 8:35:58 GMT
I am tired so not sure whatyou mean.
Blueshift: for the third time I say again that I have been following the online fandom's reaction to each announcement (the actual online comments) so I do know what I am talking about. I'm not reading what the studio "wants me to think". I don't really know how I can make this clearer.
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 30, 2017 8:40:22 GMT
Bogatan, Thor doesn't apply here. That was the Kelvin Timeline. -Ralph It does as that's when the timelines diverged. Unless the uniforms we saw were special Temporal Anomaly Uniforms they all donned just before we joined them. Beat me to it. |
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Post by blueshift on Jul 30, 2017 8:41:30 GMT
Fair enough!
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 30, 2017 8:50:22 GMT
I haven't read much but almost every time Ive gone to the comments theres been a sizable negativity thats bordered on madness. Refusing to even watch something because the trailer doesn't appeal, fine. Refusing to even watch one spisode of a show you claim to have been a fan of for up to 50 years because you dont like how the Kligons look or the uniform or because the ships hull is too wedge shaped is madness. Refusing to watch it because the appears to be a lack of white male leads is sexist racist and madness. Refusing to watch because it has previously been almost vaguely suggested that women couldnt be captains or even serve on the bridge at this point in time (in an episode in which Spock smiles ffs!) is madness.
Its always only a minority in reality, but at least online its a large minority of what I have read.
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 30, 2017 8:53:12 GMT
Ghostbusters did get a bit stupid though. It was a not very good film that didn't look very good in the trailers, but all justified critism was mushed in with the minority of ignorant fuckwits racist and sexists issues.
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Post by Toph on Jul 30, 2017 9:03:15 GMT
The sexist response to Ghostbusters was in no way a tiny fraction of it. In fact like... just the opposite.
The "Michael Bay raped my childhood!" was a very small fraction of the negative response to transformers. Most of Ghostbusters genuinely was basically basement trolls posting sexist shit. I mean Leslie Jones was practically run off twitter, and subjected to the most horrifically racist shit. She got doxed, she got hacked, she got her privet photos published online. All the women received terrible harassment.
For Discovery, it seems to be about a third of the feedback is racist and sexist.
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 30, 2017 10:36:50 GMT
I know no one who critised it for any other reason that the trailers were bad. In any way I can view them, the trailers were very very bad and sadly it turned out the film was at best mediocre.
Online it got almost nothing but a negative reaction. It got called out for being a not great film and it deserved that. A part of that was the trolls and that was shameful and embarrasing and was certainly more visible to the mainstream than the response of some fans to Bay or to Trek 2009 or Discovery, but it was never all just trolls.
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Post by KnightBeat on Jul 30, 2017 10:58:50 GMT
I'm astounded by the outpour of rage on Twitter and other places every day. People seem to be angered by the smallest thing nowadays.
I'd like to know about the demographics of the people making these comments. Are they people in their 30-40s that watched Star Trek in the 1980s to 2000s? Are they people in their 10s and 20s who experienced it in re-run and on the web? The former group should be old enough to know better, and the latter shouldn't have these views in the first place.
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 30, 2017 12:01:50 GMT
I wonder what the reaction to the first photos of movie Klingons and starfleet uniforms and redesigned Enterprise if the internet had been around back then.
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Post by blueshift on Jul 30, 2017 12:04:02 GMT
I wonder what the reaction to the first photos of movie Klingons and starfleet uniforms and redesigned Enterprise if the internet had been around back then. The Trek community is one of the big early organised fandoms, I'm sure there were a ton of 'zines with reactions to it. Would be interesting to find out. My gut feeling is that people would have liked the Klingon redesign (the original was pretty terrible) and hated the costumes. |
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Post by blueshift on Jul 30, 2017 12:10:36 GMT
No wait, they'd probably all be salty still from Phase 2 being cancelled and rolled into the movies!
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 30, 2017 14:13:09 GMT
I don't think knowledge of Phase II was in the public domain at that time, was it?
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jul 30, 2017 14:27:05 GMT
Don't think so.
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 30, 2017 15:15:51 GMT
They made it as far as sets, test footage and multiple scripts I'd be very surprised if it hadn't been announced by that point.
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 30, 2017 16:31:48 GMT
I recall it being 'big news' in the early 90's when info about Phase II started coming out. There wasn't even a book about it until 1997.
While I imagine some very well connected fans back in the day may have known about Phase II folk in general would have had no idea. Fandoms were very different in the 1970's.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 30, 2017 16:35:20 GMT
Dang it. Now I must acquire that book to find out about any contemporary announcements etc. I missed it when it came out as I was at Uni and couldn't afford that kind of thing and it went out of print fairly quickly.
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 30, 2017 17:11:12 GMT
Taken from the Wiki, announcementand cancellation Looks like its taken from the book you mentioned. So at the time it was most likely reported widely enough, but out side of Trek fans with access to fanzines who will have obssessed over it, it was probably quickly forgotten till 97 and the book and of course the internet becoming more commonly used. |
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 30, 2017 17:08:18 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 12, 2017 15:49:14 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 12, 2017 19:00:04 GMT
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Post by Toph on Sept 12, 2017 19:05:30 GMT
Beautiful music to be sure, but it feels less like an opening theme, and more of an anxiety inducing drama track.
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 12, 2017 19:52:50 GMT
I like it. Nautical feel with a hint of danger.
-Ralph
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