Bumblebee

[Stomski]

I enjoyed it and didn't come away annoyed like I have done all Michael Bay films, but I kinda feel the same as drmick... It was good to have villains with characterisations, but their role in the film was to add a threat and it seemed like an afterthought. Mainly though, I found the pace a little meandering. The alien finding their place on earth with a special bond was compelling, but I kept feeling like I'd rather be watching ET. The CG intro felt like a cutscene from a computer game, as great as it was to see familiar faces and voices, it just wasn't real enough. The characters outside the lead were also weak, as was some of the acting. Cena especially has terrible timing, this may have been an editing issue though. And finally most of the humour fell flat.

[Dezzeh]

Easily top two for me, very enjoyable film. The intro sequence was everything I could have hoped for all things considered.

[Toph]

Finally saw it, and this is the film I was hoping for in 2006.

I'm putting the whole thing in spoilers, even though I don't think most of what I'm saying constitutes as a spoiler.

SPOILER: Click to show

I think they did more with less. A stronger focus on characters over spectacle made the world feel more real. A tight plot that makes sense with zero understanding of the core concept.

TLK makes no sense if you haven't seen AoE and DotM. And even then, it's questionable if TLK makes sense. (In contrast, I think AoE makes some sense even if you've not seen the previous)

I think the characters are all really strong. Human and robot, alike (the TFs didn't really start getting characterizations until AoE, and even then, they didn't get developement). I also think Haliee Steinfeld's performance was stellar. She carried this movie almost entirely alone, and she deserves credit this fandom will never give her because 1) she's a woman, 2) she's playing a teenage girl, and 3) she's a human, and these seem to be the three things our fandom hates most, unfortunately.

Prequel vs reboot: I honestly think the only movie it doesn't mesh with, is TLK. And even then, it does-
• Bumblebee in WWII: well, he's designated as B-127. That to me reads like he's an autobot version of the seekers, or vehicons. A front line or spec-ops soldier who follows a standard body plan. As such, maybe that "bumblebee" we saw in WWII wasn't actually Bumblebee, any more than Thundercracker is Starscream. And the human characters just didn't realize it. Bumblebee himself neither confirmed, nor denied it was him.
• No timeline was given on the Cybertron scenes, for when the autobots evacuated Cybertron. It could have been in the year 1986, 1900, 1350, or 2. There is also nothing really to state that Bumblebee didn't start out on Earth when he crashed in front of John Cena. He could have been hopping from one continent to the next, trying to get away from Blitzwing.

I'm gonna end this here. Having a hard time keeping myself focused on this topid, suddenly.

[drmick]

So I appreciate anything is better than nothing, but can we really say the three Decepticns had more personality than their Bay counterparts?

For me only the red female had any characterisation worth anything, and even then not enough for me to even check to see which of the two names Dropkick and Shatter were hers! Blue one and Blitzscream were only generic baddies.

2007 had Frenzy, Megatron, Starscream and arguably Breakdown as having more than the two from Bumblebee.

ROTF had Jetfire, Megs and Starscream again, and Wheelie being better than Blue boy and Starzwing.

DOTM had only Megs really, but I think we can count Sentinel Prime here too, both having more personality than Justin and Seeker dude.

AOE had none worth a damn and I don't think any of Megs ragtag crew count for much from TLK.

So as you can see the number of memorable Decepticons decreased movie by movie until the last two had none. But I wonder if those last two are confusing people's memories of the first three which did have some good baddie Transformers.

[Toph]

I don't remember any decepticons from the first one getting any characterization except for Barricade and Frenzy.
And to be honest, Frenzy is the only one given personality.
Starscream had one throwaway line, as did Barricade. And Megatron was just very generic "ultimate villain." They couldn't even call some of them by the correct names.
The Autobots all got speaking roles, but they ultimately didn't fair much better.

Next to Megatron, Blitzwing had more spoken lines than all the decepticons from the first one put together.

[Fortmax2020]

In previous films negative stereotypes of physical, vocal or cognitive difference were too often mistaken for personalities. Very pleased Bumblebee has moved the franchise beyond that.

[Bogatan]

Jan 9, 2019 17:01:12 GMT drmick said:

So I appreciate anything is better than nothing, but can we really say the three Decepticns had more personality than their Bay counterparts?

For me only the red female had any characterisation worth anything, and even then not enough for me to even check to see which of the two names Dropkick and Shatter were hers! Blue one and Blitzscream were only generic baddies.

2007 had Frenzy, Megatron, Starscream and arguably Breakdown as having more than the two from Bumblebee.

ROTF had Jetfire, Megs and Starscream again, and Wheelie being better than Blue boy and Starzwing.

DOTM had only Megs really, but I think we can count Sentinel Prime here too, both having more personality than Justin and Seeker dude.

AOE had none worth a damn and I don't think any of Megs ragtag crew count for much from TLK.

So as you can see the number of memorable Decepticons decreased movie by movie until the last two had none. But I wonder if those last two are confusing people's memories of the first three which did have some good baddie Transformers.

I kind of get were you are coming from. In 07 I think the seriously alien faces on the decepticons really stopped them expressing much and then half of what they said was in Cybertronian. I actually dont criticise either of those choices. I really like that they were made to feel alien, but it pretty much meant only Frenzy got the screen time to develope much character. Megatron and Starscream are reliant on their previous incarnations to fill in the gaps.

For ROTF Id argue Jetfire and Wheelie were pretty much Autobots or at least neutral for most of the film and Megs and SS again rely on prior versions.

DOTM I'd say Laserbeak came out pretty well. A very distinct character from G1 or Armada. Sentinel too is interesting. Megatron finally developes into his own distinct version here.

AOE really doesnt have any Decepticons to speak of and TLK is to preoccupied with Nemisis Prime and Quintisons, but I still enjoyed those Suicide intros.

Shatter and Dropkick benefit from more expressive faces and more natural human voice acting than early Bayverse Decepticons and probably more screen time, but Im not really convinced they are significantly more developed than Frenzy. And if they are I'd still argue theres some value in how Bay handled his more alien cons.

I don't know, they are handled differently, whether thats better or not is down to how I look at it I suppose.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

To be fair, this film is called Bumblebee, not Bumblebee and the Decepticons.

Martin

[The Huff]

Wheelie was the only Decepticon to show character and a development of that in the films. He went from an evil Decepticon, to insecure maniac, to randy prevert, to Autobot and then to the voice of reason in Dark Of The Moon.
He really is one of the few things I like about the Bay movies. Tom Kenny's voice also helps.

But the only other interesting Decepticon to me was Laserbeak.

Shatter & Dropkick are a definite improvement.

[Toph]

I would honestly preferred a bit less on Cybertron, so that money could have gone to giving Shatter and Dropkick more screentime.

I quite enjoyed their quiet bickering.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

In the Bay films, the Deceps were naff characters but some were pretty impressive machines. Blackout, Scorponok, Frenzy, Ravage, Reedman, etc. were great to watch in action on screen.

Martin

[The Huff]

Jan 9, 2019 23:05:46 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

In the Bay films, the Deceps were naff characters but some were pretty impressive machines. Blackout, Scorponok, Frenzy, Ravage, Reedman, etc. were great to watch in action on screen.

Martin

Demolisher was also a great design - as was that 'walker' thing in DOTM.

[Stomski]

All this talk is just making me want to watch 2007 and DOTM again.

[Bogatan]

After rewatching Bumblebee its still great, but Im really starting to think the reshoots really did make a mess of the plot.

SPOILER: Click to show

Bumblebee crashing to Earth and just happening to land among a group of S7 soldiers makes absolutely no sense.

The Decepticons being taken to Hoover Dam but not detecting the allspark or Megatron (if its still a sequel, theres a bunch of them that I didn't pay attention to first time around)

[Fortmax2020]

It doesn't say they *didn't*, maybe that's one of the reasons all the Transformers were heading to Earth in the first film. #retcon

[Toph]

I still believe Bumblebee was written and intended to be a complete reboot, but still written in such a way that it doesn't openly contradict the other five so it could be claimed to be a prequel if it had bombed.

Which is why I think is the reasoning why he became a camero at the end.

[Bogatan]

Based on the test screenings and all the interviews Ive read it sounds like it was the complete opposite of that.

Certainly that it came out of the writers room after AOE made a fortune suggests at the very early stages its was a full on prequel. It wouldn't surprise me if it bounced back and forth as a result of TLK. Which for me is its main problem, if it had fully committed to new series or proper prequel it would have been better than it is.

I did like the directors comment that Bay wasnt that focussed on continuity so it would have been difficult to make a prequel that didn't contradict something. I don't really believe thats true as I don't think that much out and out contradicts itself, but admit the amount of exposition needed to explain what fits where wouldnt have made great entertainment.

[KnightBeat]

Bumblebee now available on VHS (but not Betamax - Boo!)

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Apr 1, 2019 20:27:42 GMT KnightBeat said:

Bumblebee now available on VHS (but not Betamax - Boo!)

But only on the 1st of April, I suspect.

Martin

[The Doctor]

I £"£$££$D"$*^&"^ hate April Fools crap.

-Ralph

[Pinwig]

You know, if that was genuine... I'd buy it.

[Toph]

There was nothing stopping them from going the Stranger Things route and putting it in a case that looks like a VHS.

[Hero]

I would have got the film on VHS too. Missed opportunity.

[The Huff]

Are VHS's going to make a sort of collectable comeback like Vinyl I wonder?

Anyway, I got my copy of the Bumblebee (US)DVD today through the post. Looking forward to my evening in on Friday to re-watch!

[Pinwig]

I don't think VHS would come back on the scale vinyl has. Vinyl has a distinct sound and a prestige feel/reputation. VHS is just inferior to anything else. It has a novelty value, I'd buy the odd special release, but as a novelty. VHS looks awful on big HD TVs.

[Pinwig]

Listening to RFC, the Bumblebee VHS is actually a thing. Copies have been sent to the places Hasbro usually send review toys - TFormers.com got sent one. I can imagine it's probably just a marketing/promo thing as opposed to an actual release, but it wasn't an April fool according to them (and they record on Wednesdays, so I don't think they're perpetuating the fool either).

[Toph]

TFW said when they got there's it was a real thing, but not for sale. Just part of a tongue in cheek promotion.

[Pinwig]

I thought so. Shame.

[The Huff]

I just had my film evening in with beer, pizza and the Bumblebee DVD.
I absolutely love this film!

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Picked up the Blu-ray today.

Straight-faced Agent Burns is awesome in the outtakes.



This, however...



Martin