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Post by The Doctor on May 29, 2018 22:55:38 GMT
Who is right? Martin? Or THE ENTIRE WORLD?
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 29, 2018 22:59:01 GMT
Your poll is flawed.
In the Sunbow cartoon universe - Yes, yes he did. We have the funeral barge in Dark Awakening.
Marvel US - no, as the movie never happens in that reality.
Marvel UK - possibly, he is never seen again, nor is it specifically said he is dead.
TMUK - no he survives.
Andy
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Post by Fortmax2020 on May 29, 2018 23:26:12 GMT
No, but neither is he would you would term 'alive'.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 30, 2018 5:33:00 GMT
Yes, for one thing by being under 'Toys and Merchandise' rather than specifying comics or cartoons. That means the Autobots considered him dead. Like they considered Optimus Prime dead. But Optimus Prime was brought back, so why not Prowl? The Movie, or something like the Movie, occurs in the 'Rhythms of Darkness' future, except that Unicron wins and devours Cybertron. But clearly Prowl survives! Correct. But we know that Wheeljack survives the Movie, as he is in 'Space Pirates'. And Blaster was shot up pretty badly by General Ghyrik in 'Space Pirates' but was OK again by 'Time Wars'. Martin |
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 30, 2018 6:09:42 GMT
and not just in it's options and placement, the later of which I have fixed. |
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Post by Pinwig on May 30, 2018 7:48:17 GMT
That means the Autobots considered him dead. Like they considered Optimus Prime dead. But Optimus Prime was brought back, so why not Prowl? Because children didn't lock themselves in bedrooms screaming about the death of Prowl! |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 30, 2018 7:53:03 GMT
Prowl wasn’t brought back because the funeral barge ended up being destroyed. Optimus was not on the barge at the time.
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 30, 2018 7:55:41 GMT
You're assuming Prowl's body was on the barge, rather than it being a memorial to him. Prime's body is the only one we see.
Wheeljack and Widcharger definitely aren't dead though.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on May 30, 2018 8:04:42 GMT
Pretty sure DA strongly implied the barge wasn't just a memorial but a spooky graveyard with actual bodies in it. A final resting place etc.
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 30, 2018 8:28:07 GMT
And jusr cos the damaged bodies are there doesn't mean their brains/sparks/whatever else you need to rebuild a TF is.
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Post by duffism1981 on May 30, 2018 10:07:32 GMT
I was going to say yes, but after reading some of the replies, he is seen running about alive in the first couple of episodes of Headmasters. So in the cartoon timeline is he dead or just a clone?
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 30, 2018 10:18:13 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on May 30, 2018 13:35:37 GMT
Dark Awakening proves he is DEAD.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 30, 2018 15:36:00 GMT
Dark Awakening proves he is DEAD. That's what he wants you to think. It's part of the Plan. DECOYS!!! And would the Quintessons waste good materials that could be put to use in future plots? Martin |
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Post by Benn on May 30, 2018 20:07:27 GMT
Given the convolutedness of Prowl's story, I am forced, reluctantly, to conclude that the only way Prowl dies in TF:TM is if you consider that a standalone.
The toys bought him back twice, the comics had him survive in "Rhythms", and at least one branch of the cartoon continuity has him popping up.
If the Underbase couldn't kill him, Scavenger couldn't.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on May 30, 2018 22:17:31 GMT
Unless Starscream and Prowl were in cahoots all along...
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 31, 2018 6:10:45 GMT
You're assuming Prowl's body was on the barge, rather than it being a memorial to him. Prime's body is the only one we see. Wheeljack and Widcharger definitely aren't dead though. Am I right in thinking that Optimus Prime and Starscream are the only TFs we see change colour to grey in the films? I've taken that to be the definite indication a TF is dead. (I think Megatron goes that colour too during his transformation to Galvatron sequence) The rest ..... well if I don't see a body like that, they're not dead! |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 31, 2018 6:58:06 GMT
Am I right in thinking that Optimus Prime and Starscream are the only TFs we see change colour to grey in the films? I've taken that to be the definite indication a TF is dead. And they both came back! Martin |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on May 31, 2018 7:37:06 GMT
Maybe going grey means an immortal spark suggesting everyone else is just a regular Joe who did die and how Galvatron retained Megatron's core being...
And classic Megatron is always grey...
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Post by Benn on May 31, 2018 9:22:42 GMT
Am I right in thinking that Optimus Prime and Starscream are the only TFs we see change colour to grey in the films? I've taken that to be the definite indication a TF is dead. (I think Megatron goes that colour too during his transformation to Galvatron sequence) The rest ..... well if I don't see a body like that, they're not dead! Ironically enough, I believe Prowl is the only one of the shuttle crew to turn grey as he falls. |
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Post by Pinwig on May 31, 2018 9:37:15 GMT
He kind of fades a bit, but doesn't go grey like Prime. When he's hit his blue eyes go red and then fade to grey, which implies death. Certainly any reading of interviews I've done with the production crew for Sunbow Sundays have said they intended those older characters to pass on in the film. It was all directly tied to Hasbro's promotion needs.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 31, 2018 17:13:38 GMT
Oh, there's absolutely no disputing that the creators of the Movie _intended_ everyone who went ARGH! and fell down to be dead. Well, except for Ultra Magnus. Even Optimus Prime. (Didn't that voiceover at the end get added on later to calm distraught fans?)
But writers' intentions at the time about characters' deaths being final count for nothing in comics and cartoons.
And saying a TF is dead because they get shot and fall down is just inconsistent with all the evidence elsewhere in both cartoons and comics (including with Ultra Magnus in the Movie) that they can be smashed to pieces and stuck back together again as a general rule. You can't suspend the rule for robots being shot and apply the rule for humans being shot just for specific scenes and expect it to stick, without backing it up somehow.
Martin
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 31, 2018 23:02:53 GMT
I would say Ironhide was definitely killed though.
Andy
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 1, 2018 1:32:24 GMT
I would say Ironhide was definitely killed though. Can't argue with that. Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 1, 2018 7:09:46 GMT
I can.
-Ralph
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Post by Benn on Jun 2, 2018 12:20:02 GMT
If he had time to download to the auxiliary memory in his chest, he survived.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jun 10, 2018 22:02:32 GMT
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Post by blueshift on Jun 10, 2018 22:41:15 GMT
Ironhides head was blown up, but as we all know, he was a dumbo with no brain so it had no effect
Ironhide escapes the shuttle to become G2 Ironhide
Brawn escapes to become G2 Brawl as he is green
Ratchet escapes to become micromaster Fixit
Prowl is dead.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jun 11, 2018 12:17:29 GMT
I believe I asked Ralph to state his case.
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 11, 2018 13:17:43 GMT
We saw Prowl die on screen.
-Ralph
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