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Post by The Doctor on Oct 23, 2017 20:26:55 GMT
I cannot make a full judgement until I see the Porgs do whatever they do in The Last Jedi.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Oct 23, 2017 20:27:44 GMT
I cannot make a full judgement until I see the Porgs do whatever they do in The Last Jedi. -Ralph Ewoks will win. We saw Ewoknam in that second film. Porgs don't even have opposable thumbs. They are screwed. |
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 23, 2017 20:28:37 GMT
We don't know what Porgs can do yet. They might have a warrior culture for all we know.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Oct 23, 2017 20:30:23 GMT
We don't know what Porgs can do yet. They might have a warrior culture for all we know. -Ralph Unlikely... |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 11, 2017 15:12:12 GMT
Four days to go and I'm still not feeling even the sliver of excitement yet, to my surprise. Is this because there is a new film every year now? Not sure. The underwhelming trailer hasn't helped.
Very little SW tat in shops this time compared to the last couple of films. Heck some shops (hello, TRU) are still flogging TFA stuff at full price!
-Ralph
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Post by Dave on Dec 11, 2017 18:56:45 GMT
Yeah I'm still unexcited despite liking the director and being a big Star Wars fan. Because of that, I will go see it, but I'd kinda forgot it was coming out.
Maybe because episode VII didn't do much for me, I've lost interest in this particular trilogy? Maybe I'll enjoy this one more. I'll find out in a few days time I guess.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 11, 2017 19:33:52 GMT
That might be it. Episode VII was enjoyable but just a remake of the 1977 film. Rogue One had a clear and simple premise to advertise. Episode VIII marketing appears quite subdued and not much more to it than 'we have made another SW film'.
We shall see. I am booked for the first 2d showing after work on Thursday so I can give it a chance before online arseholes spoil it.
-Ralph
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Post by browny87 on Dec 12, 2017 11:48:19 GMT
I think its your earlier point ralph, theres very little merch and advertising in the shops, previous films swamped supermarkets etc but they seem to not have any standalone displays this year.
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 12, 2017 12:24:12 GMT
Gotta hold out till Sunday. Quite excited.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 12, 2017 13:08:44 GMT
I think its your earlier point ralph, theres very little merch and advertising in the shops, previous films swamped supermarkets etc but they seem to not have any standalone displays this year. Even the Edinburger Disney store has a tiny SW display and no light sabers or action figures at all. Just no buzz or hype this time at all. -Ralph |
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Post by legios on Dec 12, 2017 19:12:47 GMT
I may see it this weekend - it depends on how I am placed for time, what the weather is like (if there is still snow a walk through the park might be more appealing) and whether I get the rest of my to-do list done. If I don't then perhaps I will see it after Christmas when I am with my sister - there was some talk of us heading to see it together.
The trailer hasn't done much for me - it has basically said "the stuff you assumed would be in this film is in this film" without really suggesting anything other than what we would expect. I think that is what was so appealing about Rogue One. Although it was set in a period immediately before the first film, its use of characters we didn't know and a story we knew nothing about - sure, we knew that plans for the Death Star were obtained but nothing at all about how, where, by whom... And we had a trailer that laid out little hints but without enough to join up the dots...somehow there was more sense of the unknown about that film than there is about this. (Or course, given the way they were at great pains to lay tracks out of The Force Awakens into The Last Jedi that is hardly surprising).
Upshot is, I will see it at some point and would like to catch it in theatres but it doesn't really grab me in the way that for example Black Panther is doing at present. I'm probably more interested in it than I am in something like Infinity War, and perhaps it will be a Thor:Ragnarock and surprise me by being far more entertaining than I am expecting. But it isn't a "I want to see this at the first opportunity" thing.
Eh, could be worse - next year already has a film I actively _don't_ want to see, and The Last Jedi is nowhere near in that kind of company.
Karl
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 14, 2017 17:49:27 GMT
Just out from seeing it... I fear it may be another Rogue One where I did not enjoy it while others love it.
There are some nice moments (Turnbull as a fan of Dark Empire may cream his boots a couple of minutes in, the end of CGI Snook was clever too), but the film is far too long and the characters very flat. Kylo Ren's (or Ben Solo as he is now referred to 95% of the time) plot is the strongest and then Luke's.
Other character's from VII are very... flat? The new engineer lady who teaches Finn the Power of Love is particularly gratting in a 'fan now in show' way like asthma girl in Dr Who.
Also everyone has conveniently been dropped on the heads militarily.
Snook's throne room carried the look of a green screen type room that they just forgot to put the effects on. Also the guards fight was a mess of Ray suddenly being awesome with a lightsaber and every guard flashing their unique weapon at the camera. Meh.
Overall it felt like nobody knew what to do with the set up and characters from the previous episode. I felt the acting was very rushed and poor in places too. *shrugs*
Also Jedi are now SUPER POWERED way beyond Obi-Wan's comments and subtlety of being able to control weak minds.
Not a bad film necessarily.. but too long, half done and choppy for me. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 14, 2017 20:50:57 GMT
Not a remake of ESB (huge sigh of relief), therefore better than The Force Awakens, but not in the league of awesomeness of Rogue One or the original trilogy. You're right about saying everyone has been dropped on their heads militarily. In TFA it was just the Resistance, but now it's The First Order as well.
Between the bombers at the start and then the sub-light 'chase' that lasts the rest of the film, I feel I have been watching the slowest spaceships in movie history.
Why couldn't the First Order jump to hyperspace and back to surround Leia's ship?
And if you can take out vastly superior warships by jumping to hyperspace in their face, why aren't people doing it all the time?
Agree the characters were all dull.
On the plus side, there were a lot of plot twists which meant what I thought would happen didn't actually happen, which is always a good thing.
And I found Rey more likeable here than in TFA. Martin |
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Post by Dave on Dec 15, 2017 11:35:18 GMT
Caught it yesterday. Had some quibbles with things and questions with others, but generally I liked it although I preferred Rogue One. Not going the remake route was a plus although... {Spoiler}I did get worried at the start when the opening crawl mentioned the rebels resistance were having to urgently evacuate the base. There are moments throughout that bring to mind Empire (and Jedi), but I wasn't sat there thinking 'I've seen this film'. One thing I don't really get... {Spoiler}The lack of action from the New Republic. I thought it was a bit odd in The Force Awakens (although more how they'd let it get to that point), but things did move quickly. But the First Order has attacked now, blown up the capital planet in fact. Yet it's just the resistance fighting them still. Yeah your capital exploding is a bit of a distraction, but the first Order suffered some pretty big losses too what with their main base/Snoke's Galaxy Gun also exploding at the end of the previous episode.
I suppose the reason is they're trying to recreate that rebels v empire feel of the original trilogy, but it's just weird to have a small group of fighters struggling along whilst off-camera the New Republic put their feet up. Also... {Spoiler}Who is Snoke? Where did he come from? He's a powerful force user yet has just turned up without explanation in this trilogy. What was he up to in the previous films? Seems strange to have someone that powerful uninvolved and unnoticed. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 15, 2017 15:03:00 GMT
Yeah, the surprising lack of the New Republic moving to defend itself in both films seems very out of place.
And Snoke is definitely the Farthingstone Maul of these films. Out of nowhere... suddenly snuffed out... |
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Post by legios on Dec 15, 2017 18:45:22 GMT
And if you can take out vastly superior warships by jumping to hyperspace in their face, why aren't people doing it all the time?
Most of the time folks aren't sufficiently desperate that they are prepared to commit suicide, let alone take a major capital ship with them.It isn't just a matter of jumping into hyperspace in front of them - it is a matter of ramming them at extremely high sub-luminal speeds. The "chip of paint strikes with the force of a nuclear device" kind of speeds.
It isn't a tactic that whomever is crewing the ship used, or the ship itself, survives. And actually suicidal assaults - as opposed to "that's crazy, no-one could take on all those Thugee in a head-on fight and survive heroism" isn't really in genre for the kind of pulp-serial genre that most of Star Wars has its roots. It is the sort of thing that the villains do only if they don't think they are already winning - like implacably plodding after their prey in a stern chase - because usually they think they have all the time in the world and just need to push them into a corner and then bludgeon the heroes with brute force.
It's a genre convention, rather than a real-world convention. The same as the Lone Ranger going to incredible lengths to not kill evil people who realistically he'd not be able to arrest because they'd shoot him dead.
Didn't bother me. Part of the buy-in for the setting for me. Like Space Knights with laser swords who can work magic.
Just back from seeing it. I genuinely enjoyed it - a fair bit more than I did The Force Awakens to be honest. I thought that the script was quite playful in terms of letting you develop expectations and then subverting them. Indeed, I think that is part of the films central thematic element:-
Pretty much everything that goes on in the film turns on people perceiving a thing one way when in fact it is something else. Rey, Kylo and Snoke both see the future - that Kylo will turn from his current path, that Rey will join Kylo and fight by his side as he ascends to his throne, that Kylo will strike down his true enemy... and they are all right in what they see. It just doesn't mean what they think it means.
Similarly, our brave and headstrong Resistance pilot sees the new leader of the fleet as a coward and a traitor when in fact she is setting up a shell-game escape from an enemy which simply won't stop pursuing them until it sees them dead.
Luke saw the darkness inside Ben Solo and believed that he had already chosen what he was going to be - and he was wrong, instead pushing him further down the path toward making that choice.
Rey believes that she needs a teacher to tell her what her place in everything is, but the reason that she feels like she hasn't a place in things is that she hasn't chosen it for herself...
I could keep going for a long time - but I think we all get the idea and none of us need me to bore them _that_ much!
Basically I think that unlike The Force Awakens, but like Rogue One, The Last Jedi has at its core a couple of very strong theme which can be boiled down to a single sentence. Whereas Rogue One's was "what will you sacrifice to make things right", The Last Jedi's are "you need to see things as they are, not as you are", and "you must transcend the past and move forward".
(One more though: The white covered planet that the film lets you assume is an ice-planet, until it reveals that it is salt-deposition... What we think we see is not what is really there).
I genuinely thought there were some really interesting character beats in the film as well. Heck, I can now see an actual function General Hux performs in the movie's structure other than there having to be someone there to give orders. Do I like it more than Rogue One... I'm not sure I'm even making that comparison - they are films in completely different genres. To me that would be like asking whether I prefer Once Upon a Time in the West to The Maltese Falcon. I can compare the former to other westerns, and the latter to other american detective movies, but they are apples and oranges to each other. Similarly The Last Jedi is a pulp adventure, whilst Rogue One is a grim war-movie. On one of the other points people have raised:-
Why aren't the Republic doing anything? They haven't got much left to do anything with. The First Order spent almost a generation in Space Brazil building up forces and infrastructure to overwhelm the Republic in a massive strike. Then they decapitated the Republic by blowing up its government in their initial strike. Then they destroyed the Republic battle fleet at anchor. Effectively they succeeded in doing what the German's tried in two World Wars in attacking Scapa Flow, and the Japanese attempted in attacking Pearl Harbour - remove the majority of their enemies naval strength. Given that the Republic was in denial mode "there isn't anything to worry about" and therefore "peace dividend" mode there probably isn't much left to resist the First Order. Some local police/customs/"coastguard" assets aren't going to really slow them down when a First Order taskforce turns up, occupies the high-orbitals before dropping an occupation force on the planet and moving on to the next world. Even assuming that the various planets in the Republic have managed to get past the initial shock and confusion of the initial attack.
At least, that is the way I read the situation
Upshot is, I really enjoyed it. Very much got my tenners worth out of it. Karl |
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Post by Stomski on Dec 15, 2017 19:51:53 GMT
I really want to like this movie, but I just can't find it in me. There's so much that I find off with it. Still at least {Spoiler}Yoda was not CG!
I also like Rey's origin story!
We got to see Leia use the force beyond a 'feeling', even if I didn't like the circumstances And... {Spoiler}As for comparisons to ESB - The film starts with an escape from a rebel base and then has Star Destroyers in pursuit through space whilst our hero goes to get training from a slightly cooky old master living in isolation. Unlike most blockbuster films these days though, I did feel it built quite well and the stakes were suitably high at times. Edit... Wasn't Luke's force illusion at the end using the sabre that had just been destroyed by Kylo and Rey? A subtle clue that it wasn't really him? At any rate I'm sure it was light blue and not green. Although should we assume Luke got rid of his green one?
Also was Kylo's Sabre in flashbacks Luke's old one? We still don't know how it was retrieved from Bespin or how Maz ended up with it. |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Dec 17, 2017 0:10:41 GMT
Not the film I was expecting, but I did enjoy it. {Spoiler}DAMN YOU BURNS!!! You were right that Luke would both die and not leave the island!
Loved that rubber Yoda was back.
Andy |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 17, 2017 0:27:51 GMT
Fear not, he has been punished by Ackbar dying and Nien Nunb surviving! He has been ranting for days about it. My suggestion that NN was the actual last Jedi went down well.  |
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 17, 2017 17:17:36 GMT
Forget about han solos solo film, I want a chewbacca and the porg film.
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Post by legios on Dec 17, 2017 20:30:06 GMT
ROWRRRWRRRRROOOORRWWW!
Squarkawkawksquaaaaarrrrkkkk!
Karl
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 18, 2017 9:46:30 GMT
I think Karls views very much mirror my own. Though as Ed said on facebook (paraphrasing) I wonder if it will hold up to repeat viewing without the element of surprise it has first time around. What I liked Spoiler
I did like that every time I felt like I knew what was going to happen I was wrong to some extent.
Specifically everytime they went to an ESB place. Rey goes to get trained, but basically doesnt. Rey parents reveal is that they arent anyone important (if we believe Ben)Even that it ends on a far more hopeful note despite being in a darker place.
I really liked Snoaks Red Room. I dont know why.
I even liked the slow chase that took up most of the movie. What I did not {Spoiler}The secret plan Laura Dern had. I can't understand a reason for her keeping it secret.
They dont know how they are being tracked so might fear a traitor, but that possibility is never once suggested.
I also cant decide if its just dumb luck that the old base is near by or not.
It would make sense that they were heading there after loosing their last base, but if so why come out of lightspeed nearly 18 hours flight away. Theres again no suggestion they have any concenrns about being tracked, but I'll allow it could just be a precaution.
Or maybe its not their final destination but an emergency meeting point chosen because an old base nearby could be useful.
The whole thing should be clearer even if they obviously were playing on the idea of things not being what they seem and learning from mistakes. My own little niggle {Spoiler}Laura Derns character, I missed her name at the beggining which led me to wonder through much of the film if she was Sabine Wren from Rebels. The hair, age, knowing Leia from way back and the skilled leader all made for a pretty decent fit.
By the time I'd come to the conclusion it wasn't her all I could think was why wasnt it her. For the wider movie going public it makes no difference either way, but for fans of the (new) expanded universe its adds a little something, just like Saw Guera in Rouge One did. |
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Post by Stomski on Dec 18, 2017 11:41:39 GMT
I keep feeling like I like this film and then I remember some nonsense and bring myself back to earth.
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Post by Dave on Dec 18, 2017 12:19:57 GMT
There's something else I wondered about. I assumed I'd just missed something, but then I saw someone else mention it online... Benicio del Torro's character reveals the evacuation plan to the First Order, but how did he find out about it? Finn/Rose (the only Resistance members he had contact with) didn't know about it, so how did he know the plan? |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 18, 2017 13:06:06 GMT
Magic.
There are a number of inconsistencies and particularities to it all. I liked it more than Rogue One by less than TFA. I'm hoping a repeat viewing at some point might help me like it more.
I'm also puzzled at how TFA got a ribbing for being a 'copy' of New Hope yet TLJ seems to be getting away scot free after paralleling many parts of Empire. (Ice being salt isn't distinguishing enough for me).
I really liked the start of the film I have to say. Just felt it went downhill fast after. |
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 18, 2017 13:26:27 GMT
There's something else I wondered about. I assumed I'd just missed something, but then I saw someone else mention it online... Spoiler
Benicio del Torro's character reveals the evacuation plan to the First Order, but how did he find out about it? Finn/Rose (the only Resistance members he had contact with) didn't know about it, so how did he know the plan? Spoiler
I wondered about that but I read he over hears Poe telling Finn about it while trying to open the locked door were they are captured. |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 19, 2017 8:16:33 GMT
I saw the film before I saw any reviews. I am puzzled by the "5 STARS!!" and "BEST STAR WARS EVER!!!" reviews.
Film was alright. First third was ok, space casino stuff was bloody awful and Prequel quality, last third was much better.
Since I saw it though the poor storytelling and logic flaws just annoy me more and more and some of it is just ludicrous and breaks the logic of the universe in these films. Like when JJ Abrams had transporters that can work across star systems and folk going from cadet to captain in a day in his Star Trek films just felt silly, in this having Luke be able to THIRD ACT SPOILER and Leia being able to FIRST ACT SPOILER just made me sigh as all sense of jeopardy and suspense was killed: there is now no reason for anyone to worry in the Star Wars universe.
Resistance Space Admiral not telling anyone her plan just smacked of false suspense. In general many of the characters seem to have been dropped on their heads.
Ech, it was a watchable space adventure film. I would say it was average fair for a Star Wars film and lower tier for a film in general.
Unlike other SW films, I haven't felt the urge to go see it again.
Mark Hamill stole the film. I thought that was his best turn in a SW film.
Loved the Porgs.
That Moment with Leia made me guffaw out loud in the cinema. I could barely contain my mirth.
-Ralph
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Post by Stomski on Dec 19, 2017 9:27:28 GMT
I saw the film before I saw any reviews. I am puzzled by the "5 STARS!!" and "BEST STAR WARS EVER!!!" reviews. I think Padme said it best... So this is how Star Wars dies, with thunderous applause |
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Post by browny87 on Dec 19, 2017 10:58:12 GMT
i really enjoyed it!
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Post by Jim on Dec 19, 2017 23:15:42 GMT
I thought it was amazing! Though I agree with Ralph on That Moment with Leia. But also on how good Hamill was here. It's probably the most visually arresting of all the Star Wars films, there's some beautiful design in there.
Snoke's chamber was a wonderfully stark visual, a mix of German expressionism and old school SF. His guards striking their poses in the background gave it a very off-kilter feel. Like some kind of 1930s experimental performance art.
The sacrifice of the Rebel cruiser was also beautifully done.
I loved Snoke's demise, he was one of the worst things about TFA and needed to go. And though Luke's death seemed inevitable since before the credits rolled on the previous film, it was handled really well.
It's very much about breaking with the past, and I think this is partly why hardcore fans are reacting so strongly (ludicrously!) against it, but as an exercise in pushing the franchise into the future it's about as good as it could be. It's a shame Abrams is coming back, really; aside from not being a very good director he is very backward-looking in many respects and I don't have a lot of confidence in him taking the opportunity presented here. I'm glad Johnson will be doing more.
Thematically, it also has a lot in common with Cars 3 which I saw just a few weeks ago! |
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