The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 12, 2019 12:05:55 GMT
Yes - Doubleclouder was always in his Doubledealer colours in the cartoon - and Hydra was in his Darkwing colours in one of his first episodes so perhaps in that case the US versions were first.
Although these characters appeared later in the Masterforce cartoon - Headmaster Juniors were in the cartoon pretty much from the beginning though.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 12, 2019 12:10:24 GMT
Yes - Doubleclouder was always in his Doubledealer colours in the cartoon - and Hydra was in his Darkwing colours in one of his first episodes so perhaps in that case the US versions were first. Didn't know those two, though I had asked during the week what were the differences between Doubledealer & Doubleclouder. I was thinking of the Firecons repaints the Destron Sparkdash tfwiki.net/wiki/Sparkdash |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 12, 2019 12:18:09 GMT
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Post by Llama God on Jan 12, 2019 12:21:07 GMT
This Junior Headmaster theory- I still don't understand it. What does it matter as to which was the original design intention? Eh, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter at all. But I find the production process interesting, and it's fun to try and figure out what might be happening behind the scenes. |
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Post by drmick on Jan 12, 2019 12:59:33 GMT
Fair enough- I'd love to know more about what happened behind the scenes in those days.
I remember the Cybertronian Guides saying that the 1987 Headmasters came out smaller than intended due to a mix up. Never saw that said anywhere else, and it seems wrong to me given that the toys were comparatively massive.
In terms of the Juniors- do we think the Nightbeat Siren head mix-up came out of the same confusion?
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 12, 2019 13:29:15 GMT
Fair enough- I'd love to know more about what happened behind the scenes in those days. There's something to be written somewhere about the seeming tussle between Hasbro and Takara as to who's controlled the brand over the years and who was designing what. I remember the Cybertronian Guides saying that the 1987 Headmasters came out smaller than intended due to a mix up. Never saw that said anywhere else, and it seems wrong to me given that the toys were comparatively massive. The 88 ones are the smaller ones, the 87 are the originals. I'd not heard that claimed before and suspect the guides may have plucked it out of thin air and fan rumour! The 88 toys do seam to be smaller, cheaper and not such goo quality as the earlier toys, Headmasters and Targetmsters especially so I'd tend to think it was intentional. My instinct is it was Hasbro led, which is a minus point to my earlier theory that the 88 Headmasters are Japanese originals. In terms of the Juniors- do we think the Nightbeat Siren head mix-up came out of the same confusion? Hmmm. tfwiki.net/wiki/Nightbeat_(G1)#Notes for what's happening here What that doesn't say is that the box art is toy accurate in both cases, and the art for the Japanese versions is also correct. Minerva and GoShooter are also toy accurate in the Masterforce which makes me think the error happened somewhere between Hasbro & Marvel creating the character models. It is, after all, easy to see how the heads for these might have got swapped. Do we know much about how the character models for these were created? Prior to this it would have been Sunbow, for the cartoons, which Marvel then used. Did they do the later ones too? |
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Post by blueshift on Jan 12, 2019 13:38:21 GMT
I remember hearing that the 87 headmaster's were oversized from the original designs
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 12, 2019 13:44:08 GMT
But the '87 Headmasters were drawn very large in the Japanese cartoons - almost as if the 'Master' robots weren't that much smaller than regular small Transformers.
As for people coming up with theories out of thin air - nah, I can't imagine anyone doing that...
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 12, 2019 13:54:39 GMT
I think you'll find I usually have some reasoning for explaining why I think what I do!
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Post by drmick on Jan 12, 2019 14:08:41 GMT
In terms of the Juniors- do we think the Nightbeat Siren head mix-up came out of the same confusion? Hmmm. tfwiki.net/wiki/Nightbeat_(G1)#Notes for what's happening here What that doesn't say is that the box art is toy accurate in both cases, and the art for the Japanese versions is also correct. Minerva and GoShooter are also toy accurate in the Masterforce which makes me think the error happened somewhere between Hasbro & Marvel creating the character models. It is, after all, easy to see how the heads for these might have got swapped. Do we know much about how the character models for these were created? Prior to this it would have been Sunbow, for the cartoons, which Marvel then used. Did they do the later ones too? Chris Mcfeely did a good video about character models in his Basics series, albeit about the 84-85 crew. The box art was nearly aways toy accurate, whereas the character models much less so. Going off topic, but I'd live to know why the 1987 heads were so different when comparing toys to character models to media representations. The US cartoon would have been cancelled around this time so perhaps that resulted in a massive change to the whole design/inception process. |
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Post by drmick on Jan 12, 2019 16:43:24 GMT
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 12, 2019 17:44:46 GMT
But there were character models done for the animated segments of the adverts - Pretender Classics spring to mind, even though they weren't used in the Marel comics.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 12, 2019 19:26:52 GMT
Phil is talking shite. -Ralph You think the Hasbro versions of the Headmaster Jrs are the originals? Is the sky blue? -Ralph |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 12, 2019 20:18:27 GMT
Explain why....
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Post by blueshift on Jan 12, 2019 20:41:34 GMT
Blue light is scattered in all directions by the tiny molecules of air in Earth's atmosphere. Blue is scattered more than other colors because it travels as shorter, smaller waves. This is why we see a blue sky most of the time
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 12, 2019 21:33:31 GMT
Parallel development at most for US and Japan Jnr Headmasters.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 12, 2019 21:40:15 GMT
Blue light is scattered in all directions by the tiny molecules of air in Earth's atmosphere. Blue is scattered more than other colors because it travels as shorter, smaller waves. This is why we see a blue sky most of the time This is true at least. Now explain it using a particle theory of light. Begin. |
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Post by Toph on Jan 13, 2019 21:19:54 GMT
The insides of the Pretender Monster guys don't look very dinosaury though That's true - they are more monster than dinosaur. But then a lot of that years Pretenders vehicle/animal modes didn't match the shells - which is good because you want something different I guess. Although at the time, I wondered why Octopunch wasn't an Octopus, Longtooth wasn't a boat and it was a missed opportunity to have Grimlock with a big scary T-rex shell! I also thought Pinchers scorpion robot would have been a better fit for Bludgeons shell. Longtooth was a boat, though! He's some sort of amphibious craft! |
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 13, 2019 22:40:41 GMT
I've never actually noticed that! I've always seen it as some kind of a truck, but it is indeed more of a boat shaped thing with wheels. Perhaps it can just go on land and sea.
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 13, 2019 22:49:24 GMT
Just like walruses?
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 13, 2019 22:52:41 GMT
Well, yeah I guess. But what's that got to do with Longtoo HANG ON.....
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Post by Benn on Jan 14, 2019 9:34:19 GMT
Now I want a repaint of Movieverse Breacher as Longtooth.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 14, 2019 11:03:11 GMT
You're not the first person to suggest that!
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 14, 2019 12:58:21 GMT
But Bludgeon's tank mode (and name) is unusual for the shell isn't it?
(Unless it isn't actually a tank like I think it is but some form of samurai car)
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 14, 2019 13:34:03 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 14, 2019 13:56:56 GMT
No, Phil, no!
Inner robots were not 'swapped'!!! Get a hold of yourself!!!
-Ralph
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 14, 2019 15:08:06 GMT
I've always thought the scorpion would fit Bludgeon better.
But if Longtooth was the Decepticon instead of Sean it would ruin the animal/vehicle theory...
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Post by Toph on Jan 14, 2019 15:19:38 GMT
As shells usually have to be made with the shape of the inner robot in mind, then robot swapping would have to be done before they actually made the toys.
So while they may have all been conceived as autobots=humans/vehicles, and decepticons=monsters/beasts, the decision to mix them up was a conscious and deliberate one, done extremely early in the process.
Personally, I'm very glad they did. It was a really smart move.
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 14, 2019 15:22:53 GMT
And of course, Starcream also had a human outer shell.
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Post by blueshift on Jan 14, 2019 15:31:34 GMT
But Bludgeon's tank mode (and name) is unusual for the shell isn't it? (Unless it isn't actually a tank like I think it is but some form of samurai car) Tanks are traditionally evil though Apart from guzzle |
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